Scarlet Al
Referees in Wales
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- Jun 11, 2008
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Black 12-45 Green
I have had previous bad experience with black coach, and he is a qualified WRU Level 1 (Up to U16) referee so he should know better.
Prior to the game, pleasant enough to me, but didn't really get off on the right footing as he informed me that he could not download a team sheet off the net so we'd have to sort it out in the club after. I asked him if that was the only option. He said it'd be better doing it all together, I told him to ask Green coach if he was happy (as it is the same sheet for both teams in this competition). Both coaches happy so I got the team sheet after the game from Black back in the club, which, in fairness, was already filled in by them. Team briefings went fine... 2 or 3 minutes before the game, he was shouting to his team "Respect the man in the middle, the referee makes a decision, you stick with it, don't argue......"
4 minutes in to the game, I had to stop and told him, "Before the game, you were telling your players to respect the referee and his decisions, well for the first 4 minutes, that's exactly NOT what you've been doing." "Ok, sorry ref."
Players almost kicked off (fighting wise) but all dealt with through captains with warnings etc.
Play on, black "Try" held up, a player: "You must be f*cking blind ref." Yellow card.
At scrums etc, the black coach was coming on the pitch shouting, "any chance of a word ref, any chance of a word?" I ignored this the first two / three times, then I told the coach that I would speak to him at half time if he so desired. Still mouthing away on the sideline constantly, and still asking me "for a word", this was obviously rubbing off on his players.
Half way through the first half approx. yellow card to green for cynical in the side near try line, then 5 mins. before half time, nasty tackle without the ball so another yellow to green.
During the second 10 minute period, green claim no FR trained players, so we go uncontested for 2 scrums, then as if by magic, a trained prop appears.
Half time, black coach approached me and raised issue to do with FR situation, I explained that I was in a difficult position as if they tell me they are not FR trained, then I have to take their word for it. He also raised that the nasty hit without the ball, in his eyes was a red card offence, I told him that in my eyes it was a yellow, obviously. He then mentioned "green captain trying to get involved and start fighting 4 or 5 times, and you haven't done anything although you've certainly seen him twice as you've warned him." :chin: He also mentioned "the high penalty count" against Green and asked how long until a card, I told him that I'd ref the game as I saw it.
Green coach also approached me, he's a WRU Level 2 referee (Same level as me) and asked if I was ok seeing as I'd had to endure a lot of abuse from the black sidelines.
During second half, black coach didn't stop mouthing, "Cheating ref, cheating us." "Don't worry boys, you're playing against 16." etc etc. 2 injuries and no one on the bench meant that Black had to drop to 13 players.
A tackle in the air and more cynical fouls in the red zone meant 2 MORE yellow cards for green.
Black camped on opposition try line for a good 10 minutes, not really getting anywhere, and although from this, I had yellow carded a green player, black coach - "Any chance of a card ref, can they seriously have a card now please ref?" During a stoppage in play due to injury very near the sideline where the black coach was, I went over to the black coach and told him that I'd referee this game and he'd stick with coaching. "Oh, but ref, how long 'til you get your cards out for them?" I repeated myself. Answer: "Ok."
Well that was just about it any way, green ran 2 excellent tries in at the end of the game, and eventually game over.
Green coaches very decent towards me, shook my hand, thanked me etc etc.
Black coach didn't even approach me to thank me.
My Father was in attendance at the game taking photos as an amateur photographer, neither club had issues with this, as agreed before hand etc etc... He told me that the black coach was on the pitch more often than he wasn't and was on the pitch at times smoking, and was calling me "every name under the sun." Obviously, as a ref, I switch off to a lot of this so didn't really hear everything he was calling me etc, only what I've mentioned above.
My father also has photographic evidence that the coach was on the pitch during play, and was smoking whilst he was on it.
Club about a mile or 2 away from the ground so I went over there, the coach walked in to the club from his car and passed me and said "You need some paperwork don't you" and then went to fetch the team sheet that was already filled.
He didn't offer me food, drink or expenses. Expenses I had to ask someone from behind the bar then he came over and said "I'll sort that." and gave me the money and that was pretty much the end of our dialogue. I asked a man behind the bar if there was a committee man present, there was so I informed him that I didn't want to discuss anything else now but that I would be submitting a breach of code of conduct report on todays game.
"Oh, there we are, carry on then."
The committee man I spoke to was present at the game.
Had a productive dialogue about the tackle area etc. with the green coach in the club, who, even though his team recieved 4 yellow cards, asked me for my contact details so that if they need a ref down there any time, they would contact me.
Disgraceful, seriously wondering why I give up my Sunday mornings to get treated like dirt.
I have had previous bad experience with black coach, and he is a qualified WRU Level 1 (Up to U16) referee so he should know better.
Prior to the game, pleasant enough to me, but didn't really get off on the right footing as he informed me that he could not download a team sheet off the net so we'd have to sort it out in the club after. I asked him if that was the only option. He said it'd be better doing it all together, I told him to ask Green coach if he was happy (as it is the same sheet for both teams in this competition). Both coaches happy so I got the team sheet after the game from Black back in the club, which, in fairness, was already filled in by them. Team briefings went fine... 2 or 3 minutes before the game, he was shouting to his team "Respect the man in the middle, the referee makes a decision, you stick with it, don't argue......"
4 minutes in to the game, I had to stop and told him, "Before the game, you were telling your players to respect the referee and his decisions, well for the first 4 minutes, that's exactly NOT what you've been doing." "Ok, sorry ref."
Players almost kicked off (fighting wise) but all dealt with through captains with warnings etc.
Play on, black "Try" held up, a player: "You must be f*cking blind ref." Yellow card.
At scrums etc, the black coach was coming on the pitch shouting, "any chance of a word ref, any chance of a word?" I ignored this the first two / three times, then I told the coach that I would speak to him at half time if he so desired. Still mouthing away on the sideline constantly, and still asking me "for a word", this was obviously rubbing off on his players.
Half way through the first half approx. yellow card to green for cynical in the side near try line, then 5 mins. before half time, nasty tackle without the ball so another yellow to green.
During the second 10 minute period, green claim no FR trained players, so we go uncontested for 2 scrums, then as if by magic, a trained prop appears.
Half time, black coach approached me and raised issue to do with FR situation, I explained that I was in a difficult position as if they tell me they are not FR trained, then I have to take their word for it. He also raised that the nasty hit without the ball, in his eyes was a red card offence, I told him that in my eyes it was a yellow, obviously. He then mentioned "green captain trying to get involved and start fighting 4 or 5 times, and you haven't done anything although you've certainly seen him twice as you've warned him." :chin: He also mentioned "the high penalty count" against Green and asked how long until a card, I told him that I'd ref the game as I saw it.
Green coach also approached me, he's a WRU Level 2 referee (Same level as me) and asked if I was ok seeing as I'd had to endure a lot of abuse from the black sidelines.
During second half, black coach didn't stop mouthing, "Cheating ref, cheating us." "Don't worry boys, you're playing against 16." etc etc. 2 injuries and no one on the bench meant that Black had to drop to 13 players.
A tackle in the air and more cynical fouls in the red zone meant 2 MORE yellow cards for green.
Black camped on opposition try line for a good 10 minutes, not really getting anywhere, and although from this, I had yellow carded a green player, black coach - "Any chance of a card ref, can they seriously have a card now please ref?" During a stoppage in play due to injury very near the sideline where the black coach was, I went over to the black coach and told him that I'd referee this game and he'd stick with coaching. "Oh, but ref, how long 'til you get your cards out for them?" I repeated myself. Answer: "Ok."
Well that was just about it any way, green ran 2 excellent tries in at the end of the game, and eventually game over.
Green coaches very decent towards me, shook my hand, thanked me etc etc.
Black coach didn't even approach me to thank me.
My Father was in attendance at the game taking photos as an amateur photographer, neither club had issues with this, as agreed before hand etc etc... He told me that the black coach was on the pitch more often than he wasn't and was on the pitch at times smoking, and was calling me "every name under the sun." Obviously, as a ref, I switch off to a lot of this so didn't really hear everything he was calling me etc, only what I've mentioned above.
My father also has photographic evidence that the coach was on the pitch during play, and was smoking whilst he was on it.
Club about a mile or 2 away from the ground so I went over there, the coach walked in to the club from his car and passed me and said "You need some paperwork don't you" and then went to fetch the team sheet that was already filled.
He didn't offer me food, drink or expenses. Expenses I had to ask someone from behind the bar then he came over and said "I'll sort that." and gave me the money and that was pretty much the end of our dialogue. I asked a man behind the bar if there was a committee man present, there was so I informed him that I didn't want to discuss anything else now but that I would be submitting a breach of code of conduct report on todays game.
"Oh, there we are, carry on then."
The committee man I spoke to was present at the game.
Had a productive dialogue about the tackle area etc. with the green coach in the club, who, even though his team recieved 4 yellow cards, asked me for my contact details so that if they need a ref down there any time, they would contact me.
Disgraceful, seriously wondering why I give up my Sunday mornings to get treated like dirt.
I'm with everyone else - report the abuse, and let's hope he loses his coaches ticket too. Absolutely not acceptable
