Usa - Arg

David J.

David J.


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Don't know if this hasn't made it overseas, but the big referee news here in the States is the apparent cock up at the San Diego 7s tournament. I wasn't there and haven't seen the match, but all reports coming out are in agreement.

Late in the second half, Argentina was ahead by 5 points. They took the restart kick with 12 seconds on the clock. The kick went directly into touch. The final horn sounded. The referee blew his whistle for full time.
 
Deeps

Deeps


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David J. said:
Don't know if this hasn't made it overseas, but the big referee news here in the States is the apparent cock up at the San Diego 7s tournament. I wasn't there and haven't seen the match, but all reports coming out are in agreement.

Late in the second half, Argentina was ahead by 5 points. They took the restart kick with 12 seconds on the clock. The kick went directly into touch. The final horn sounded. The referee blew his whistle for full time.
Click to expand...

David, are you saying that Argentina should have been penalised for unsportsmanlike play, assuming it was deliberately kicked into touch, or that time should have been allowed by the referee for the FK or that the horn was early?
 
David J.

David J.


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Time should have been allowed for a free kick. We debate that scenario in 15s without consensus, but in 7s, it's pretty clear that once the ball went into touch, a FK was in order.
 
O

OB..


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The law seems pretty clear in sevens that kicking the ball straight out is a Free Kick offence, so play should continue even if time has expired when the offence is committed ie when the ball lands in touch.
 
Deeps

Deeps


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OB.. said:
The law seems pretty clear in sevens that kicking the ball straight out is a Free Kick offence, so play should continue even if time has expired when the offence is committed ie when the ball lands in touch.
Click to expand...

Quite; an opportunity to dust off Law 5.7 (e) ...If time expires and a mark, free kick or penalty kick is then awarded, the referee allows play to continue.
 
Simon Thomas

Simon Thomas


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Total agreement - FK should have been played.
 
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Davet

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Dangers of refereeing by habit - in 15s it's not a FK so instinct would have been end of game -

There, but for the grace of a mythical being, go any of us.
 
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Wert Twacky


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Andrew Small was in the middle of that one.

I saw the match on SKY and remember the incident, but can't say for sure if the ball went directly into touch or not - the camera was way over the otherside and unless you were there, it would be difficult to say.

I heard and saw the US team argue with the ref, and Small was heard to say something about touch, but I cannot remember what.

But, if it did go directly in then yes - it seems it was a mistake.

I had this at the Bath 7s last year. Team losing by two points (Welsh :D ) and the oppo take a restart with 10 seconds left. Ball goes directly into touch and the referee ends the game.
The TJ (all appointed) quickly pointed out to the referee that it should be a FK, but the ref (an older fella and quite stubborn) was having none of it.

Needless to say I was left to sort the whole bun fight out! That'll teach I for overseeing 25 referees at a 7s tourno!
 
Phil E

Phil E


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Everyone seems in agreement on the 7's version. FK.

But what if it was 15's.

What would you do?
 
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tim White


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You can only play on beyond Full Time for a PK offence, going back for a scrum or retake the kick does not seem to fit the criteria. You may consider intentional offending if its a real Pi** Take though.
 
Phil E

Phil E


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Phil E said:
Everyone seems in agreement on the 7's version. FK.

But what if it was 15's.

What would you do?
Click to expand...

Just to clarify, there are two positions, as I see it:

  1. Its the end of the game, no FK, PK has been awarded, hit the showers.
  2. Its not the end of the game. Since one of the options to the opposition is a re-take of the kick, does that mean the kick has not finished, therefore the ball cannot have gone dead, therefore the game is not yet over?
 
O

OB..


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In 15's it is a technicality of Law 5.7(e) that only a Free Kick or Penalty can be awarded and played after time has expired. When the ball goes direct into touch from a drop out, there is no such sanction on offer.

If the ball lands in touch before time expires, then a lineout or scrum can be played to completion even after time has expired.
 
A

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Wales Vs Australia in the Autumn.

Wales had a drop out at the end of the game and were told by the ref they could not kick the ball straight out to end the game. The Aussies could ask Wales to kick again (and again etc) until such time as the referee deemed it deliberate offending and then he would award a penalty against Wales.) I think it was Alan Lewis.
 
Phil E

Phil E


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All The Time Ref said:
Wales Vs Australia in the Autumn.

Wales had a drop out at the end of the game and were told by the ref they could not kick the ball straight out to end the game. The Aussies could ask Wales to kick again (and again etc) until such time as the referee deemed it deliberate offending and then he would award a penalty against Wales.) I think it was Alan Lewis.
Click to expand...

Now that sound more equitable to me than the team winning by 1 point being allowed to kick dead straight from a kickoff and therefore (possibly) denying the opposition their last play of the game.
 
Dickie E

Dickie E


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then Wales should have kicked it over the dead ball line.
 
Phil E

Phil E


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Dickie E said:
then Wales should have kicked it over the dead ball line.
Click to expand...

But that would have the same result?

13.9 BALL GOES INTO THE IN-GOAL
(b) If the opposing team grounds the ball, or if they make it dead, or if the ball becomes dead by going into touch-in-goal or on or over
the dead ball line, they have two choices:To have a scrum formed at the centre, and they throw in the ball, or To have the other team kick off again.
 
A

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Equitable to me also. OB seems to be suggesting that it was wrong not to allow it though.

I would not allow a team to do so. Am I wrong?
 
O

OB..


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In equity you should not allow a team break the law by kicking straight out. Technically in 15s it is not a breach of the law carrying a sanction that allows the referee to play on if time has expired.

Deciding it was deliberate and thus a penalty offence sounds reasonable to me. Warn the team first.
 
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