Was I right two stick to my guns??

[JDET]

Ok, first offical league game nervous as a bride on her wedding night,and I made a wrong desision. Red and blue scrum, red put in scrum wheels 90 but the ball is in the red 2nd row. I blow and reset the scrum giving the put in to blue, a mistake that the players did not complain about. However a voice from the side line informed me that I was wrong ( and questioned why I was out there at all), the question is was I right to ignore and carry on or should I have changed my decision:chin:

 

[Donal1988]

What age level was this? If this was youth rugby should have given a red scrum. However if Senior rugby then U19 variations didnt apply and the team not in possession i.e. blue should have got put in.

If its a trivial mistake I would usually admit to it. A quick "sorry gents, i was still thinking of the senior laws. Its a red scrum". However back yourself. Why did you think it was wrong? Because the voice on the sideline said it?

If you know its wrong and NB IT IS ONLY A TRIVIAL THING then hold your hands up and correct your decision. Teams will normally respect you for it.

 

[Phil E]

Ok, first offical league game nervous as a bride on her wedding night,and I made a wrong desision. Red and blue scrum, red put in scrum wheels 90 but the ball is in the red 2nd row. I blow and reset the scrum giving the put in to blue, a mistake that the players did not complain about. However a voice from the side line informed me that I was wrong ( and questioned why I was out there at all), the question is was I right to ignore and carry on or should I have changed my decision:chin:

Assuming its an adult match, you were right so you had no need to change your decision, sideline was wrong.

When the scrum wheels 90 degrees or more, reset the scrum. Put in at the new scrum is the side NOT in possession at the time of the wheel.

So red in possession at time of wheel, reset, blue put in.

EDIT: if it was youth rugby stop it at 45 degrees, same put in every time.

(a) If a scrum is wheeled through more than 90 degrees, so that the middle line has passed
beyond a position parallel to the touchline, the referee must stop play and order another
scrum.
(b) This new scrum is formed at the place where the previous scrum ended. The ball is thrown
in by the team not in possession at the time of the stoppage. If neither team win
possession, it is thrown in by the team that previously threw it in.

 

[JDET]

Senior two old knarly 3rd teams

 

[Donal1988]

Senior two old knarly 3rd teams

Then you made the right call :clap: Dont doubt yourself becasue as you will quickly find the sideline is keen to dish out advice.

 

[Phil E]

Senior two old knarly 3rd teams

Then you were correct and the spectator was wrong.........it's usually the way. Have more confidence in your decisions. :hap:

 

[JDET]

I was right after all. Like any one about to sit an exam I had swatted up on this senario but had convinced myself that I had mad a wrong decision I will try not to listen to the touchline comments. Cheers

 

[mehemlynn]

Hi,

Since this season I'm sitting sidelines, I've heard about everything about the ref on the field. Mostly it is that they don't know the rules, when the person doing the critiquing hasn't ever studied a (rugby) law book.

Good job on the right call, and congrats on getting your first match at that level done.

mehemlynn

 

[Wert Twacky]

Welcome JDET - there's a few of us hailing from the land of the apple on this 'ere site.

You made the right call - good on you. As for the sideline - it'll come with experience, but don't listen to them. After a while you'll tune out sideline crap - always remember that you know way more about the laws than a sideline ever will.

And, when you do make a mistake (and you will - we all have and will continue to drop the odd bo**ock now and then), there is no harm whatso ever in saying sorry.

The trick is then to put it out of your mind and get on with what's in front of you.

One of my mantras: "accept and move on".

See you at Tor on Thursday!

 

[Dixie]

Your experience demonstrates very clearly why its always destructive to heed the sideline comments. Mostly they haven't got a clue, and if you start doubting yourself they'll soon have you overturning perfectly correct decisions.

If YOU know you were wrong (whether prompted or otherwise) hold your hand up and either change or retain your decision - both with an apology. If in doubt, back your own judgement against anyone else's - you're probably more likely to be right.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I got that wrong in my first senior match:nono: . Gave the team in possession the put in after the wheel. I'd been doing junior stuff up 'til then. I stuck to my (wrong) guns :Zip: with the intention that if it happened again I'd do the same to be equitable. Do two wrongs make a right? It didn't happen and I've remembered ever since. My advisor (yes in my first game) didn't bother mentioning it - there was too much other shit to wade through.:wink:

Welcome - by the way.

 

[Taff]

..... When the scrum wheels 90 degrees or more, reset the scrum. Put in at the new scrum is the side NOT in possession at the time of the wheel. EDIT: if it was youth rugby stop it at 45 degrees, same put in every time.

Forgive me for asking Phil E, genuine question but where does it say that the same side put in every time at youth level? The U19 variations (the scrum section of which only cover 2 pages) doesn't mention it.

I'd better get this right, because I'm only licensed to ref up to U16s so realistically it will always be relevant in my case.

 

[TigerCraig]

Taff, it is assumed.

As the U19 laws say the referee must stop at 45 degrees wheel and sset a new scrum, then by extension a scrum will never get to 90 degrees, therefore the change of throw in law will not come into force.

It gets tricky when competitions mix laws.

I help coach and run touch for my club's Under 85kg team. That style of rugby plays all senior laws, with the exception of the Under 19 scrum variations. Many a ref has become confused!!

 

[Dickie E]

I stuck to my (wrong) guns :Zip: with the intention that if it happened again I'd do the same to be equitable. Do two wrongs make a right?

This is worth exploring. What DO we do if we have been making an error in law for the 1st 40 mins only to be told by a coach or AR at 1/2 time?

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

This is worth exploring. What DO we do if we have been making an error in law for the 1st 40 mins only to be told by a coach or AR at 1/2 time?

I will chat to my advisor (if he wants to) at HT but NOT about my performance. Some actually make a point of not talking at half time. All in the name of equity I suppose. Something fundamental or dangerous may be mentioned but it hasn't happened to me.

Maybe a referee coach is different but I'm not good enough to have one so can't comment.

 

[DrSTU]

I will chat to my advisor (if he wants to) at HT but NOT about my performance. Some actually make a point of not talking at half time. All in the name of equity I suppose. Something fundamental or dangerous may be mentioned but it hasn't happened to me.

Maybe a referee coach is different but I'm not good enough to have one so can't comment.

Assessor, advisor I don't talk to at half time, no interest in what they have to say. They are there to assess my whole not parts.(Cue assessor post shooting me down)

Ref coach, def chat to as he sees me week in and out and can provide tweaks there and then.

 

[Taff]

Taff, it is assumed. As the U19 laws say the referee must stop at 45 degrees wheel and sset a new scrum, then by extension a scrum will never get to 90 degrees, therefore the change of throw in law will not come into force.

I understand it now. I thought that the ball was turned over if / when the scrum wheeled 45 degrees.

 

[Dixie]

This is worth exploring. What DO we do if we have been making an error in law for the 1st 40 mins only to be told by a coach or AR at 1/2 time?

Irrespective of how you came by the knowledge, if you find at half time that the defending backs should have had a 5m offside line, and you've been using a back foot offside line, should you change?

I think equity would suggest you should continue to do it wrong. The offside lines mentioned might not make much difference half-on-half, but other errors could. If you've been allowing lineouts within 5m of the goal line on a sloping pitch, it's reasonable to give the side playing downhill in the 2nd half the same benefit as the opposition got in the 1st.

 

[Bill Lee]

Taff, P17.
The U19 variations...Its a bit more than that Taff. See Law Book Page 163.

No Wheeling A team must not intentionally wheel a scrum.
Penalty: penalty Kick

If a wheel reaches 45 degrees, the referee must stop play. If the wheel is unintentional, the referee orders another scrum at the place where the scrum is stopped.

For unintentional you could say its a non-event...Re-set, start again, no change.

 

[Simon Thomas]

This is worth exploring. What DO we do if we have been making an error in law for the 1st 40 mins only to be told by a coach or AR at 1/2 time?

In the land of the RFU it is made clear to our assessors, advisers & referee coaches that the only advice that can be given to a referee during a competitive match (League, Cup, Merit Table, etc) is involving a safety issue (incorrect or dangerous FR bindings for example). No advice re law interpretation or the ref just getting it plain wrong should be given at half time, as any change could materially affect the match result. There should be a consistency by the referee throughout, even if that is consistently wrong.

I go nowhere near the pitch at half time and during the match will not make any comments to or answer questions from coaches, replacements or spectators.