[Law] What is the official role of a touch judge during a match?

[dhammikaheenpella]

1. In a U20 school match played last Friday (in Sri Lanka), we witnessed a high tackle being made during a maul (right over the ball carrier's neck for good couple of seconds). It happened in front of a Touch Judge (TJ), and the spectators were screaming of foul play and were asking why the TJ did not report the incident to the referee (as the referee was far behind the maul and was unsighted of the incident).

2. In another match played two weeks before, off a scrum, the defending scrum half was clearly obstructed by the attacking No 8 by putting his leg horizontally (parallel to the ground) to prevent the defending SH reaching the attacking SH. This time too the referee did not see the incident but happened in front of a TJ. Although the defending SH protested nothing happened.

Some spectators were in the opinion of that those incidents do not cover under TJ's official purview but some argued otherwise.

I thought it was an interesting question to find the laws around it for my knowledge. So, what is your opinion on the above incidents? What is the official role of a touch judge during a match? What are the rules (numbers) which cover TJs' duties.

Thanks

DH

 

[L'irlandais]

In my opinion in both of those situations the TJ could have signaled foul play with one of World Rugby TJ singnals.

 

[thepercy]

A touch judge may be appointed by a match organizer or a team involved in a match and is responsible for signaling, touch, touch in-goal and the success or otherwise of kicks at goal.

An assistant referee may be appointed by a match organizer and is responsible for signaling, touch, touch in-goal, the success or otherwise of kicks at goal and indicating foul play. An assistant referee will also provide assistance to the referee in the performance of any of the referee’s duties as directed by the referee.

 

[DocY]

I think this is the distinction between TJs and ARs. In general, touch judges wave a flag when the ball's out, but that's it. Typically they'll be coaches, subs or someone associated with one team or the other who you probably wouldn't consider impartial.

ARs have a far greater remit generally covering at least foul play and they'd be qualified referees (at least here).

I wouldn't expect anything official from a TJ for either incident. The best you'd hope for would be a quiet word with the ref at the next lineout, but I'd certainly expect an AR to pick up the first incident and signal it.

I don't think the second incident is even an infringement, but I wouldn't necessarily expect an AR to signal for a flanker grabbing the 9, for example - he might tell the ref if they had comms though.

 

[L'irlandais]

Very informative discussion in the forum archive about a this subject.

 

[dhammikaheenpella]

I think this is the distinction between TJs and ARs. In general, touch judges wave a flag when the ball's out, but that's it. Typically they'll be coaches, subs or someone associated with one team or the other who you probably wouldn't consider impartial.

Do TOUCH JUDGES and ASSISTANT REFEREES have different roles? In that case I will have to find out whether they are TJs or ARs. I know for a fact that they are appointed by the Sri Lanka Society of Rugby Football Referees and have seen them drawing ref's attention to stop matches and report foul play.

 

[dhammikaheenpella]

Thanks - this might help me. Let me go through it :}

 

[dhammikaheenpella]

According to your link, there no mention of ARs. Do you think TJ and AR do the same job??

 

[DocY]

According to your link, there no mention of ARs. Do you think TJ and AR do the same job??

AR is a fairly new term - newer than the link.

If they're appointed, they're probably ARs

 

[dickell]

AR is a fairly new term - newer than the link.

If they're appointed, they're probably ARs

I was an RFU TJ right from the start of the scheme in 1990, when we were creating parameters and learning to be a team of three. We had no radio comms, but from the beginning we were authorised to signal and report foul play (which I had to do within the first 10 minutes of my first match).

 

[dhammikaheenpella]

AR is a fairly new term - newer than the link.

If they're appointed, they're probably ARs

Yes they are. They wear the official SLSRFR (union) outfit and have seen them officiating as referees in other matches - thanks

 

[Pegleg]

TJs and ARs have distinctly different duties. TJs cannot signal foul play. ARs can.

Here is the law:

6.B.4 WHERE THE TOUCH JUDGES OR ASSISTANT REFEREES SHOULD BE
(a) There is one touch judge or assistant referee on each side of the ground. The touch judge or
assistant referee remains in touch except when judging a kick at goal. When judging a kick
at goal the touch judges or assistant referees stand in in-goal behind the goal posts.

(b) An assistant referee may enter the playing area when reporting an offence of dangerous
play or misconduct to the referee. The assistant referee may do this only at the next
stoppage in play.

 

[Pegleg]

Yes they are. They wear the official SLSRFR (union) outfit and have seen them officiating as referees in other matches - thanks

Not the point. They must be appointed as ARs to the game in question. If not then they are "just" Touch Judges.

 

[Dickie E]

Not the point. They must be appointed as ARs to the game in question. If not then they are "just" Touch Judges.

that may apply in England but is not a universal rule. If Nigel Owens was out walking his dog and offered to run touch for my game he would be an AR. Here, it is the qualification that counts, not the appointment. IMO this is a sensible arrangement.

 

[crossref]

that may apply in England but is not a universal rule. If Nigel Owens was out walking his dog and offered to run touch for my game he would be an AR. Here, it is the qualification that counts, not the appointment. IMO this is a sensible arrangement.

That could probably work here, you would be officially appointing him, on behalf of the Society. (your society will likely have a process about this, for you to follow, are eg are you one of those authorised to make appointments? )
But if he was there coaching his nephew's u16 team, and running touch (as coaches often do) then he would clearly be a unofficial TJ and wouldn't have AR powers

 

[Pegleg]

that may apply in England but is not a universal rule. If Nigel Owens was out walking his dog and offered to run touch for my game he would be an AR. Here, it is the qualification that counts, not the appointment. IMO this is a sensible arrangement.

I don't know the regulations in England. It certainly is here. The law book treats the two differently. In Wales we follow that. If Nigel was at a park and the ref did not turn up he cannot ref the game. He could ring the WRU and he would, no doubt be appointed pretty quickly. But any appointment to a Youth or Senior game MUST be appointed by the officials authorised to make such appointments. If he just picked up the whistle he is not covered by the wru insurance etc.

Recently I did a youth game. One of my TJs was a referee (Indeed he is a colleague in my society) he was allowed only to act within a TJ's remit and not an AR's remit.

I would suggest that the default position is that the two are separate UNLESS your union has a ruling to the contrary. SO perhaps the OP needs to ask his union what they wish to happen. All of us are merely able to put OUR unions' position forward. These answers may or may nor be of use.

I guess on of the problems with your scenario is that one side could effectively provide an AR but the other may not have a qualified ref at the game so only provide a TJ. So one side has a guy calling foul play etc the other does not. There is a real avenue for bias in that situation.

 

[Pegleg]

I actually was doing part of my Advisor preperation (I'm trying it out as I may retire soon and change over) the actual advisor was with two refs who were, one, near the end of his training for his grade two certificate the other had actually been confirmed as level two. Part of that process involves running touch for a qualified referee. So we had one level 1 one leve 2 a level 2 ref and me as a Level 3 ref with the advisor.

I was surprised that neither of the lads were able to act as ARs even though they were appointed as one was only a L1 and the other whilst being confirmed as a L2 had not "officially" been awarded his badge. They're quite strict around here.

 

[The Fat]

Hey Dickie,
Wouldn't it be a ridiculous situation if you had say a Shute Shield, Brisbane/Melbourne Premiership or Super Rugby referee at your ground with his kit in his car and seeing that one of your ARs had not turned up or had twisted his ankle 5 minutes in, offered to run the line for you and, as the referee, you had to say to him, "Just touch and kicks at goal thanks". 10 minutes later he sees blue 5 king hit red 7 causing a serious head injury and Andrew/Rohan/Angus/Whoever, couldn't flag the foul play?
I think I prefer our system where qualifications is what counts. All insured under ARU anyway aren't we?

 

[crossref]

I don't know the regulations in England. It certainly is here. The law book treats the two differently. In Wales we follow that. If Nigel was at a park and the ref did not turn up he cannot ref the game. He could ring the WRU and he would, no doubt be appointed pretty quickly. But any appointment to a Youth or Senior game MUST be appointed by the officials authorised to make such appointments. If he just picked up the whistle he is not covered by the wru insurance etc..

Clubs can appoint referees to games, and they act as a club official, covered by club insurance.

(of course the rules of any specific competition may preclude a club appointed ref, but that's a competition matter. But in the merit table games round here, if the Society have not provided a ref, the home club can appoint one, so they would be able to look after Nige's dog for him, and ask him to do it. Ah, In our merit table regs the two captains have to mutually agree that the club-appointed ref is acceptable, so they might object !)

 

[crossref]

Hey Dickie,
Wouldn't it be a ridiculous situation if you had say a Shute Shield, Brisbane/Melbourne Premiership or Super Rugby referee at your ground with his kit in his car and seeing that one of your ARs had not turned up or had twisted his ankle 5 minutes in, offered to run the line for you and, as the referee, you had to say to him, "Just touch and kicks at goal thanks". 10 minutes later he sees blue 5 king hit red 7 causing a serious head injury and Andrew/Rohan/Angus/Whoever, couldn't flag the foul play?
I think I prefer our system where qualifications is what counts. All insured under ARU anyway aren't we?

I don't think our systems are that different.
In your scenario - who appointed you as ref -- your Society presumably.
So your Society can also appoint the passing super-ref to be AR.
What's the process for making that appointment?
- If you are yourself a Society appointer -- then appoint him
- Otherwise make a quick phone call and get him appointed.
This would be the same.

If you are not a person authorised by your Society to make official appointments then by definition you can't appoint official ARs, even if it is NO.