What would you do?

OB..


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You can't see what Stephen Jones was doing just before the tackle. If he was static, then he lifted and must have been close to red.
 

SimonSmith


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That must have been a close call.

My honest answer is that I don't know. I'd prefer to have seen it live, and from a different angle.
 

Ciaran Trainor


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My initial reaction was yellow but in slow motion could have been a red
 

Lee Lifeson-Peart


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Ooooh! :wow:

Slo mo is quite damning - in real time not sure. Pre AR I'd say YC! :biggrin:
 

Simon Thomas


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Yellow good enough for me in real time - neither the referees that I assess nor myself have the luxury of replays / slo mo, so I work in real time.
 

Ian_Cook


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Yellow good enough for me in real time - neither the referees that I assess nor myself have the luxury of replays / slo mo, so I work in real time.

So YC

....but a citing and suspension to follow?


Steven Jones has just a few weeks ago seen his test captain RC for a tip-tackle, and what does he do?

What is it going to take for these players to learn not to grab below the hips , lift and turn?
 

Taff


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That must have been a close call.
We had a refs meeting last week and the speaker said "If you've got to think hard whether it's a red card - it's probably a yellow card offence" which I think is the same thing as OBs "You know instantly if it's a red".

As soon as I saw it live, I knew he was getting a card and thought :noyc:
 
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Donal1988


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Way I see it; if he is getting suspended for several weeks he derserves a red card.
 

crossref


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what you would give is a slightly a red herring -- depends on how you see it in the moment -- it's what you should give --
which seems a RC?
 

Mike Selig


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We had a refs meeting last week and the speaker said "If you've got to think hard whether it's a red card - it's probably a yellow card offence" which I think is the same thing as OBs "You know instantly if it's a red".

As soon as I saw it live, I knew he was getting a card and thought :noyc:

I agree in general, but not for tip-tackles. We have been conditioned by what has happened previously (playing experience, refereeing experience, what we've seen on TV) that only the very worst tip-tackles get RCed. The IRB has decided otherwise. Therefore for those types of tackles it is RC by default, and only lower sanction if there's enough reason. Old habits die hard, and it will take a while for people to recondition themselves to think "tip=RC".

As an interesting side-point: I started refereeing young, with very little playing experience. My view as an "outsider" in many ways was that tip-tackles are one of the most dangerous things to happen, so I automatically went RC for them. At a disciplinary (prior to IRB directives) I got a RC sufficient verdict, on the basis that he hadn't completely tipped him (both myself and the player admitted the angle was about 45 degrees). My report stressed that there was a drive to the ground with use of the shoulder, this was not disputed. Obviously the decision would be different today.
 

Taff


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.... Old habits die hard, and it will take a while for people to recondition themselves to think "tip=RC".
But MS the memo makes it clear that a tip tackle doesn't automatically = Red.

Don't forget, the memo even says that a tip tackle could even be a PK. The general public aren't familiar with the finer points of the memo, but I think the message has got through to them that a tip tackle will probably be a Yellow.
 
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Jenko


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Steven Jones hasn't been cited so it appears the ref and a lot on here got that right!
 
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