With relegation comes extra responsibility

[stuart3826]

So there I was after 2 years as 4th official in the Premiership with Worcester Warriors, safe in the knowledge that I was experienced now, and allegedly know what I'm doing, and we get relegated.

And in the Championship it all goes haywire. I now have to do stuff! I have comms with the ref, I have full responsibility for running a clock, and the sin bins and the blood bins, and everything.

Bloody hell the match went quickly! A blood bin 10 minutes from the end of the first half, a :noyc: on the stroke of half time, and 3 more :noyc: :noyc: in the second halfand I think it was 2 front row replacements for Warriors and 4 for Bees!

I think it all went ok. And it was well reffed - good to meet you KML1 :clap:

 

[beckett50]

Did 4th Official at Saracens v Treviso on Wednesday night and had to do all them things too, as well as get wet.

Great experience though, especially chatting to the man in the middle and hearing his coach

 

[Simon Thomas]

And in the Championship it all goes haywire. I now have to do stuff! I have comms with the ref, I have full responsibility for running a clock, and the sin bins and the blood bins, and everything.

I think it all went ok. And it was well reffed - good to meet you KML1 :clap:

Did you have the replacements cards in use ? There has been silence since the County Championships trials.........................:chin:

So KML1 was dishing out the YC's :wink:

perhaps an invite to do a 4th Official session if you are ever down Hampshire way coinciding with our 3rd Monday in Month Training Meeting ?

 

[stuart3826]

First yc was for a wickedly high tackle, second was to cool down a back row who was looking to shape up for a boxing match. And the third was for a professional foul - player killed the ball, stood up and said "I'll start walking shall I sir?"

And as for the 4th official session - I live and work in Birmingham, but pay my expenses and I'm sure we could work something out!

And yes we were using sub cards.

 

[Phil E]

Stu

Glad they are keeping you busy :wink:

 

[stuart3826]

Stu

Glad they are keeping you busy :wink:

Wish I could say the same for North Mids. What would it take to transfer to Warwickshire?

 

[Phil E]

Duplicate post

 

[Phil E]

Wish I could say the same for North Mids. What would it take to transfer to Warwickshire?

£15 in subs.

 

[Simon Thomas]

£15 in subs.

Unfortunately it is not usually as simple as just that.

The two Societies Committee's often have to agree to the transfer, or a dual membership (for Combined or single Service a formality), and will look at current address and work location, potential change of address/work location, reason for requested transfer, grade level / abition & potential, attendance at Training meetings, etc.

 

[Phil E]

Unfortunately it is not usually as simple as just that.

The two Societies Committee's often have to agree to the transfer, or a dual membership (for Combined or single Service a formality), and will look at current address and work location, potential change of address/work location, reason for requested transfer, grade level / abition & potential, attendance at Training meetings, etc.

Simon, I bow to your superior knowledge in these matters.

I should have used Choppers tongue in cheek smilie!

 

[dave_clark]

Unfortunately it is not usually as simple as just that.

The two Societies Committee's often have to agree to the transfer, or a dual membership (for Combined or single Service a formality), and will look at current address and work location, potential change of address/work location, reason for requested transfer, grade level / abition & potential, attendance at Training meetings, etc.

so, potentially, a society could turn away someone looking to transfer from another society?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Dave - yes and we have done so occasionally on request by the 'home' Society, and vice versa when a Hampshire member has tried to transfer elsewhere (with no change of residency or work/uni location involved or specific travel problems).

The vast majority of transfer applications involve a change of address or job, or are for dual membership to reflect weekday / weekend or student or armed services locations, and we happily agree and continue to keep contact & encourage.

Very rarely there is a request made to transfer for what we believe is the wrong reasons (which I will not discuss in public but they do exist), the Societies Committees will discuss it all and make a decision that is best for them and for the referee involved.

 

[Dixie]

Very rarely there is a request made to transfer for what we believe are the wrong reasons (which I will not discuss in public but they do exist), the Societies Committees will discuss it all and make a decision that is best for them and for the referee involved.

I'd imagine that these may well involve disagreements about ability, personality conflicts, or clubs of the referee's level being nearer in the "new" county than the current one. In football, where players are contracted to a club, they cannot be transferred without agreement, but that agreement is not usually withheld from a player who "wants away". In refereeing, where there is no contract, how can you prevent a ref from resigning from Society A and offering his services as a free agent to Society B? Would not any attempt to prevent or obstruct this move be simply sour grapes?

 

[Simon Thomas]

how can you prevent a ref from resigning from Society A and offering his services as a free agent to Society B? Would not any attempt to prevent or obstruct this move be simply sour grapes?

if you live or work in the County area, you join that Society. It equalises resources, prevents cherry-pickers or "problem" referees pitching up in different Societies. It also minmises travel costs, time spent travelling etc.
that is how the system currently works, and has for many years, and it is effective.

You mention personality conflicts, ability/potential not recognised etc - we try to deal with them internally first, but if there is no other option, we would agree to a move to enable that referee to continue, but when it has happened the same thing often happens again in the new Society !

Because we are grown-ups and work together as volunteers, if someone has a problem it is dealt with, discussed, etc. Most referees move for very valid reasons and do so with our blessing & support. Russ Clarke moved from Hants to Berks 4/5 seasons ago. Andrew Harris and I dealt with his request sensibly when he raised it openly, it was right for him, and for Berks (he is on your Committee now) and a loss we had to accept. He lives on Hants/Berks border and with a young family the travel to south coast was too much.

if you resign and try to join another Society, they will want a Grade confirmation, so will write to the Society you are leaving. If you don't tell them who the last Society was, it will come up on RugbyFirst, plus we Committee men all talk to each other, doing reffing and assessment exchanges or are on Fedderation or Group.

Bottom line is you want to move, be open and discuss it with your current Society because if you don't you may just p*ss off a few people who put a lot of time into the two Societies and may well prompt an emotional response from either and that could well block any transfer (call it sour grapes if you want to).

To operate as a Society or even club referee you need to be appointed by that Society / Club - so yes it can be prevented !

 

[stuart3826]

I never intended a Tongue in cheek quip to start this train of thought

 

[dave_clark]

if you live or work in the County area, you join that Society.

is it just Essex and London (North region) that massively overlap then (and to a lesser extent Suffolk and North Essex)? i always presumed that the situation down here was pretty standard.

 

[KML1]

So there I was after 2 years as 4th official in the Premiership with Worcester Warriors, safe in the knowledge that I was experienced now, and allegedly know what I'm doing, and we get relegated.

And in the Championship it all goes haywire. I now have to do stuff! I have comms with the ref, I have full responsibility for running a clock, and the sin bins and the blood bins, and everything.

Bloody hell the match went quickly! A blood bin 10 minutes from the end of the first half, a :noyc: on the stroke of half time, and 3 more :noyc: :noyc: in the second halfand I think it was 2 front row replacements for Warriors and 4 for Bees!

I think it all went ok. And it was well reffed - good to meet you KML1 :clap:

Likewise - nice to see you earning your match fee.. :wink:

Was nice to have someone I could trust with the Nunber4 duties on the side. It sounds like they had some fun and games down in the SW on Sunday and no sign of the FR logic tree it would seem. Some controversy sees Rotherham beat Bristol with Brisl trying to escape the FR and going uncontested while camped on their own 5m line. Rather them than me!

Anyway, back to our game. 3 yellows in one game will ruin my average!! And next week is a repeat of a game that cost me 4 cards last year! Hope my management improves...

 

[Simon Thomas]

Dave

Nothing in Essex is ever simple :wink: just look at the pink and blue shirts !

I think your situation in Essex is quite rare, in that Essex Society was not re-formed until a few seasons ago, hence overlap with London & Suffolk, or that is what I underatood when chatting to Alan Gold a few times at various meetings.

Certainly we, Sussex, Kent, Berkshire, Dorset & Wilts have clear county boundaries.

I think there is some overlap between Herts and London north region.

In Devon, Plymouth is a separate Society inside the County.

 

[stuart3826]

Likewise - nice to see you earning your match fee.. :wink:

Was nice to have someone I could trust with the Nunber4 duties on the side. It sounds like they had some fun and games down in the SW on Sunday and no sign of the FR logic tree it would seem. Some controversy sees Rotherham beat Bristol with Brisl trying to escape the FR and going uncontested while camped on their own 5m line. Rather them than me!

Anyway, back to our game. 3 yellows in one game will ruin my average!! And next week is a repeat of a game that cost me 4 cards last year! Hope my management improves...

nothing wrong with your management from where I was listening!

And Simon if you're serious about me speaking on my role pm or email me

 

[Dixie]

is it just Essex and London (North region) that massively overlap then (and to a lesser extent Suffolk and North Essex)? i always presumed that the situation down here was pretty standard.

Dave, I live in the very north-east corner of Berkshire, 200m from the Bucks border, and about two miles from both Middlesex and Surrey (London Society). As a L.10/11, I was frequently appointed into the London area as the nearest available official to referee Lightwater, and the lower Camberley and Chobham sides. I've only twice been appointed to Bucks, both times under formal exchange programmes.