Yellow card but we want a quick tap.

[Browner]

I think my game management at my level is up to it and selling the decision whether a try is scored or not however I do have one problem.
Say red six has committed the offence but blue take the quick tap and you say red six card pending.
What if red six then intercepts and scores?
Allow the try then card him?

Can of worms I think.

Maybe, but this is only a can of 'very low probability' worms, so the potential benefits to the attack far outweigh this consideration in my mind.

 

[Dixie]

- the team takes a QT and scores, award the try, YC the infringing player and continue with the conversion and restart on halfway.

- the team takes a QT and the ball carrier is tackled into touch 2m out. YC the infringing player and play the lineout 5m out, defending team to throw.

And if the team takes a QT, spins it wide and the ball is intercepted by the player you are about to card, who then outpaces the rest and scores at the other end?

 

[Ian_Cook]

And if the team takes a QT, spins it wide and the ball is intercepted by the player you are about to card, who then outpaces the rest and scores at the other end?

That is the chance they take - YC in the offing or not. After all they didn't know there was a YC in the offing at the moment they took the QT.

 

[OB..]

And if the team takes a QT, spins it wide and the ball is intercepted by the player you are about to card, who then outpaces the rest and scores at the other end?

Why would that sort of freak occurrence be regarded as a killer argument? Surely the odds are heavily in favour of a try by the non-offending side, if they have chosen their moment wisely - and that is up to them.

PS. IMHO the interceptor was offside (had not retired) at the tap penalty.

 

[TheBFG]

PS. IMHO the interceptor was offside (had not retired) at the tap penalty.

:wink:

now that would be "good management"

 

[Browner]

IMHO the interceptor was offside (had not retired) at the tap penalty.

:wink:

now that would be "good management"

Then YC him as well ! :shrug:

 

[TheBFG]

Of course! (but just the one Didds :wink: )

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Just watched an incident in the junior World Cup where ref stopped play for a ruck offence close to the line then blew again and called a defender out to receive a card.
Attacking scrum half had wanted the quick tap but was prevented thus allowing the defence time to realign.
Just wondered if anyone has said in a game that they were coming back for the card but allowed play to develop after you had blown for the original offence.
I have come back and carded people after playing advantage.

Ref was unfortunately correct in law. No quick tap after whistle is blown. Perhaps he should not have blown it the second time, but not withstanding the ball was dead / no advantage.

(f)

After the ball has been made dead. Advantage cannot be played after the ball has been made dead

 

[Jarrod Burton]

Ref's are in a sh*tty spot regardless of their actions here. Blow it up and issue a card and the captains and 9's here would whine about not being able to take the quick, if you allow the quick and nothing came of it they would whine about the player not being carded.

 

[SimonSmith]

Read the game and trust your instinct. There is no definitively right or wrong answer here, just one that is game context right.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Read the game and trust your instinct. There is no definitively right or wrong answer here, just one that is game context right.

so based on this law and fairly applying law

(f) After the ball has been made dead. Advantage cannot be played after the ball has been made dead

a referee should either:

1. whistle once allow the quick tap and disregard yellow card

2. whistle once signal the mark, wait to see quick tap, if not whistle 2nd, issue yellow

3. whistle once signal the mark, if second or repeated team infringement, immed. 2nd whistle, must issue card

anything else would not be IAW law

 

[Dickie E]

so based on this law and fairly applying law

(f) After the ball has been made dead. Advantage cannot be played after the ball has been made dead

a referee should either:

1. whistle once allow the quick tap and disregard yellow card

2. whistle once signal the mark, wait to see quick tap, if not whistle 2nd, issue yellow

3. whistle once signal the mark, if second or repeated team infringement, immed. 2nd whistle, must issue card

anything else would not be IAW law

No to 1.

If offence is YC-worthy, then it remains YC-worthy, QT or not

 

[OB..]

A friend has just passed me a book which reads like a conversation between Ed Morrison and Derek Robinson.

[Penalty has been awarded for foul play.]
Derek: Now here's the dilemma. You're very quick and positive, which the players like because it lets them tap and run. But the offence may be serious. You may want to speak to the guilty party.
Ed: In that case I'll say: "Don't take it". I've got to weigh up the situation fast, decide that I can't let this offence pass, and stop the game.
[..]
Derek: It occurs to me that by the time the referee's said "Don't take it" they might well have taken it.
Ed: If that happens, don't stop it. Don't bring them back. Just live with it and catch up with the offender at some other time. But it's best to seize the moment if you can. Something in you just clicks and you know: this is the time. Everything's moving so rapidly that you have to create a chance to communicate now, because that communication is essential to your control.

(published 1996, updated 2007)

 

[crossref]

Ref's are in a sh*tty spot regardless of their actions here. Blow it up and issue a card and the captains and 9's here would whine about not being able to take the quick, if you allow the quick and nothing came of it they would whine about the player not being carded.

well, what everyone is saying is still card him anyway, at the next break in play.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

No to 1.

If offence is YC-worthy, then it remains YC-worthy, QT or not

well, what everyone is saying is still card him anyway, at the next break in play.

I'm not in the everyone.

If a ref allows a QT and later issues a YC for that offense, that ref has allowed advantage to be played when the ball is dead. That is not following law and is actually in effect unfair to the YC offending team.

 

[Dixie]

I'm not in the everyone.

If a ref allows a QT and later issues a YC for that offense, that ref has allowed advantage to be played when the ball is dead. That is not following law and is actually in effect unfair to the YC offending team.

You believe that delaying the issuance of a card is an example of playing advantage. I disagree. Law 8 is not well constructed, and the definition is lacking in precision. However:

[LAWS]The Law of advantage takes precedence over most other Laws and its purpose is to make play more continuous with fewer stoppages for infringements.[/LAWS]

The stoppage had already occurred (penalty had been applied) therefore advantage was not being played.

 

[crossref]

I'm not in the everyone.

If a ref allows a QT and later issues a YC for that offense, that ref has allowed advantage to be played when the ball is dead. That is not following law and is actually in effect unfair to the YC offending team.

if committing a YC offence not only give away a PK but ALSO prevents the oppo taking a quick tap as well, then you are making it doubly attractive to commit the cynical offence....

 

[SimonSmith]

Frustrating conversation.
a hitherto free flowing and good natured game - I'd be more inclined to let the QT go.
Bad tempered, fractious, no relationship with the captains - less inclined.

Game context is a major input here.

 

[ChrisR]

To Simon's post above add ...

Nature of offence. Repeat offending such as offside at the breakdown then allow the QT. Dangerous play with tempers flaring then call a halt.

 

[Browner]

.....unfair to the YC offending team.

They cant complain, as they create any perceived fairness imbalance the moment they offend, as they shouldn't do so.

Factor this outcome into your willingness to 'risk' offending in the first place.