Wales v Tonga

[Browner]

Blimey with friends like you lot, who needs enemies?!?

When we all get to the level he's at, then we get to comment on whether he's good or not. Thought RR.com was better than this.

& KML has never conveyed his view on another officials performance [yeah right] .... don't fear critique - learn & improve from it.

 

[OB..]

http://dsc.discovery.com/tv-shows/mythbusters/videos/polishing-a-turd-minimyth.htm

 

[The Fat]

To be fair to Mike Fraser, I was thinking to myself midway through the 2nd half, "What difference would it have made to the game if he was holding the flag and CJ had the whistle?" My conclusion was maybe a 10-20% improvement in the game. I think CJ would have set his stall out with regard to breakdown offences and scrums very early in the game and that may have cleaned things up a bit but I doubt that it would have turned the "turd" into a showcase. I think MF was the victim of attempting to let things flow around the breakdown but a lot of it turned to shite and he still had to award 27 PKs so his game plan backfired. He is a better ref than this game suggests and has had better quality games to referee in the ITM cup. He did get the referals to the TMO correct and therefore didn't award any tries that shouldn't have been awarded.
It was a dull game all round and he can't be held responsible for that. Remember that Wales, in the 2nd half, had 89% of the territory, 72% of possession and still couldn't put any points on a team ranked how many places lower on the world standings?

 

[Ian_Cook]

By the way it was some guy called William Shakespeare who said "you can't polish a turd" not the Americans. Judging from a few of their "leaders" they have tried .

The expression doesn't originate with Shakespeare, although he was quite happy to use toilet humour to get a laugh, having had one of his characters (I think Dr Caius from The Merry Wives of Windsor") say "If there be one or two, I shall make a turd". using "turd" as a pun with "third"

The term "you cannot polish a turd" was first used by American comedian/actor/writer/director Jerry Lewis in a conversation with Stanley Kubrick. Apparently, so the story goes, Lewis was editing a film in one of the cutting rooms near where Kubrick was working on 2001: A Space Odyssey. Kubrick walked into Lewis' cutting room smoking a cigarette and asked "Can I watch?"

Lewis, who was apparently editing a movie that he thought was destined to bomb said, "Yeah, why not. Even you can't polish a turd.", to which Kubrick replied "You can if you freeze it." (note: some versions of the story have it that Kubrick's reply was "No, but you can roll it in glitter")

 

[Ian_Cook]

To be fair to Mike Fraser, I was thinking to myself midway through the 2nd half, "What difference would it have made to the game if he was holding the flag and CJ had the whistle?" My conclusion was maybe a 10-20% improvement in the game. I think CJ would have set his stall out with regard to breakdown offences and scrums very early in the game and that may have cleaned things up a bit but I doubt that it would have turned the "turd" into a showcase. I think MF was the victim of attempting to let things flow around the breakdown but a lot of it turned to shite and he still had to award 27 PKs so his game plan backfired. He is a better ref than this game suggests and has had better quality games to referee in the ITM cup. He did get the referals to the TMO correct and therefore didn't award any tries that shouldn't have been awarded.
It was a dull game all round and he can't be held responsible for that. Remember that Wales, in the 2nd half, had 89% of the territory, 72% of possession and still couldn't put any points on a team ranked how many places lower on the world standings?

I agree. If the two teams are determined to play crap rugby, there is not a lot the referee can do to improve the standard.

As an aside, Wales in Grey and Tonga in White? How many change strips have Wales got now, Green & Red, Black & Red, Yellow & Black and now Grey?

Why for God's sake? It was only necessary for Tonga to change strip.

 

[didds]

Shall we not comment on the players either? After all they have done pretty well to get to international level too.

Unless of course we are / have been international players ourselves.

I've played internationally if that counts?

8 countries....

didds

- - - Updated - - -

home team changes, not away. That's a rugby given - I thought?

didds

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Away team changes down to level 7 in england didds but I think that is a stupid rule that no true rugby fan agrees with. another marketing ploy at the top level to get people to buy branded kits.
Anyway back to the game..................... enough of that.
I felt sorry for the welsh guy making his debut, How can you proudly hang that shirt on your wall or at your club, shocking kit.

 

[Browner]

To be fair to Mike Fraser, I was thinking to myself midway through the 2nd half, "What difference would it have made to the game if he was holding the flag and CJ had the whistle?" My conclusion was maybe a 10-20% improvement in the game. I think CJ would have set his stall out with regard to breakdown offences and scrums very early in the game and that may have cleaned things up a bit but I doubt that it would have turned the "turd" into a showcase. I think MF was the victim of attempting to let things flow around the breakdown but a lot of it turned to shite and he still had to award 27 PKs so his game plan backfired. He is a better ref than this game suggests and has had better quality games to referee in the ITM cup. He did get the referals to the TMO correct and therefore didn't award any tries that shouldn't have been awarded.
It was a dull game all round and he can't be held responsible for that. Remember that Wales, in the 2nd half, had 89% of the territory, 72% of possession and still couldn't put any points on a team ranked how many places lower on the world standings?

Responsible? not solely, but he's a [the?] major facilitator.

By allowing no space off the HMF and no consequences for repeat infringement [ especially slowing the ball ] he licensed such a poor display.

Of course he's a talented referee, and his elevation wouldn't have happened without lots of good matches, but his hesitation was surprising/disappointing, maybe it was 'limelight avoidance' in action? I'm sure his post match review won't make a comfortable watch.

Stop coaching, start escalating. Reclaim the 1m -1.5m HMF encroachment , and as for lazy runners [don't even start me off]
More space between two teams = better match, I might have said this in other threads?

Crikey even the commentators were calling for affirmative Scrum action inside the first 15mins, the writing was indeed on the wall. AT halftime Keith Wood was correct "it was horrible to watch"

as an aside, I didn't get a second opportunity to view, but was Ashley Beck's inside pass to North 'forward' in the lead up to his try [neat finish though] it wasn't checked, in the TMO review, but there was doubt in my mind..... clip anyone?

 

[Wedgie]

It was just the refs 2nd Test. I don't think he had a shocker, but just lacked confidence. That will come.

I reckon even Nigel Owens would have struggled to make that game bearable. What's that lovely saying the Americans have "You can't polish a turd". So true. :biggrin:

Tough night for the ref if both front rows are determined not to play, but even in the 75th minute early shoves were happening, and a quiet "peep". "Stand up Gentlemen......".

It's got to be sorted earlier....

 

[Taff]

Responsible? not solely, but he's a [the?] major facilitator. By allowing no space off the HMF and no consequences for repeat infringement [ especially slowing the ball ] he licensed such a poor display.

I have no idea how many scrums there were (as I said I fell asleep - yes it really was that exciting) but it felt like there were a hell of a lot. But what can the ref do about it? Handling was poor by both teams and knock ons / lost forwards were common even when under minimal pressure. Sure the ref can play advantage ..... but if there IS no advantage, he has no other choice. Even the commentators were "suggesting" that he turned a blind eye to some of the knock ons because they didn't want another scrum.

Just to be clear, I'm not suggesting the ref was the "turd" mentioned earlier; the game was the turd, and I reckon not even the best ref in the world could have done a hell of a lot about it.

 

[OB..]

Away team changes down to level 7 in england didds but I think that is a stupid rule that no true rugby fan agrees with. another marketing ploy at the top level to get people to buy branded kits.

Actually, below top levels it is about giving value to sponsors logos on home team kit.

Locally we stick with the traditional home team changing for purely pragmatic reasons (the away team will not have an alternative strip available), but the best idea in the case of an unexpected clash is surely to loan the second strip to the away team if sponsors' logos matter.

 

[Account Deleted]

The expression doesn't originate with Shakespeare,
[/I]

The Tempest.

 

[Browner]

I reckon not even the best ref in the world could have done a hell of a lot about it.

Forget only the best ref..... many refs would have sorted the problems earlier.
You'll never find a better example of why allowing defenders to encroach beyond the HMF ruins a match IMO.

 

[OB..]

The Tempest.

Not in my copy.

 

[Account Deleted]

If I have the wrong play I apologise.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Against lots of advice I watched it. If anyone still has the recording have a look at MF as he blows the final whistle. I think that says it all.

I also wonder if Tipuric and co in their efforts to help should or shouldn't have turned Tonga player on to his side when he clattered. I would suggest they should leave him to the medics.

 

[crossref]

Why for God's sake? It was only necessary for Tonga to change strip.

it looks like Wales did to Tonga what Scotland did to NZ in the RWC game in murrayfield
1- exercised their rights, and forced the away team to change strip
2- then changed their own strip anyway.

ridiculous

 

[Waspsfan]

I also wonder if Tipuric and co in their efforts to help should or shouldn't have turned Tonga player on to his side when he clattered. I would suggest they should leave him to the medics.

Although they were trying to help, you are 100% right, they should have left it to the medics. If he had fractured his neck, the way he was moved could have resulted in him never walking again. There is a reason that medics spend a long time stabilising someone's neck before they move people.

 

[SimonSmith]

& KML has never conveyed his view on another officials performance [yeah right] .... don't fear critique - learn & improve from it.

I'll give you a couple of days.

Go back through his posting history. I'll be waiting for you. To the best of my 10 year(ish) recollection, he hasn't.

 

[Taff]

Against lots of advice I watched it. If anyone still has the recording have a look at MF as he blows the final whistle. I think that says it all.

You're joking. I couldn't delete it fast enough.

.... I also wonder if Tipuric and co in their efforts to help should or shouldn't have turned Tonga player on to his side when he clattered. I would suggest they should leave him to the medics.

My wife commented on that, and I've often wondered what I would do if caught in a similar situation. I know how to put someone in the Recovery Position but should I? If they have a neck injury, you risk making it worse by rolling him onto his side, but if he's sparked out and on his back, you risk him choking on his own tongue by not rolling him on his side.