Lee Lifeson-Peart
Referees in England
- Joined
- Mar 12, 2008
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- Level 6
I had an incident in my game on Saturday that I was 100% sure was an offence and I sold it as such however on looking at the LotG I'm less than 100% sure and am seeking to prompt a bit of dicussion in order to convince me I'm totally right or totally wrong.
Anyway. Blue have a scrum (doesn't matter where) and I'm stood on putting in side. Ball goes in. Ball goes to BS Flankers side (my side) scrum doesn't wheel at all and he (BSF) picks ball up with his left hand and is off downfield. I blow for PK and tell him (and skipper) as he's not the hindmost player he can't pick it up out of the scrum. Ball was definately not out prior to pick up.
I thought I sold it ok but LotG do not specify that particular scenario as an offence although I thought it was as I read something about hindmost player of the scrum - here it is:-
[LAWS]20.10 Ending the scrum
(c) Hindmost player unbinds. The hindmost player in a scrum is the player whose feet are nearest the team’s own goal line. If the hindmost player unbinds from the scrum with the ball at that player’s feet and picks up the ball, the scrum ends.[/LAWS]
There is no sanction for not being the hindmost player (which is what I said the PK was for) and unbinding and picking up.
Is the PK correct but the sanction should be covered by:-
[LAWS]20.9 Scrum - general restrictions
(b) All players: Handling in the scrum. Players must not handle the ball in the scrum or pick it up with their legs.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]
Skipper was not convinced and I persuaded him I was (still) right over a pint. I think if I'd got the book out I would have struggled to be as convincing.
On a slightly different tack given he's not the HMP if he'd unbound and picked it up (with two hands) is that PK under:-
[LAWS]20.3 Binding in the scrum
(f) Binding by all other players. All players in a scrum, other than front-row players, must bind on a lock’s body with at least one arm prior to the scrum engagement. The locks must bind with the props in front of them. No other player other than a prop may hold an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]
Anyway. Blue have a scrum (doesn't matter where) and I'm stood on putting in side. Ball goes in. Ball goes to BS Flankers side (my side) scrum doesn't wheel at all and he (BSF) picks ball up with his left hand and is off downfield. I blow for PK and tell him (and skipper) as he's not the hindmost player he can't pick it up out of the scrum. Ball was definately not out prior to pick up.
I thought I sold it ok but LotG do not specify that particular scenario as an offence although I thought it was as I read something about hindmost player of the scrum - here it is:-
[LAWS]20.10 Ending the scrum
(c) Hindmost player unbinds. The hindmost player in a scrum is the player whose feet are nearest the team’s own goal line. If the hindmost player unbinds from the scrum with the ball at that player’s feet and picks up the ball, the scrum ends.[/LAWS]
There is no sanction for not being the hindmost player (which is what I said the PK was for) and unbinding and picking up.
Is the PK correct but the sanction should be covered by:-
[LAWS]20.9 Scrum - general restrictions
(b) All players: Handling in the scrum. Players must not handle the ball in the scrum or pick it up with their legs.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]
Skipper was not convinced and I persuaded him I was (still) right over a pint. I think if I'd got the book out I would have struggled to be as convincing.
On a slightly different tack given he's not the HMP if he'd unbound and picked it up (with two hands) is that PK under:-
[LAWS]20.3 Binding in the scrum
(f) Binding by all other players. All players in a scrum, other than front-row players, must bind on a lock’s body with at least one arm prior to the scrum engagement. The locks must bind with the props in front of them. No other player other than a prop may hold an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick[/LAWS]
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