Ref. Flummoxed ?

[chopper15]

Ref.Law 10.4(l) last para. in red.

Last sentence, 'This covers both the original offence and the misconduct'.

What consideration to this ethic would a ref. give if the incident was less than 10m from the try line?

 

[Dixie]

Chopper, people need to see the Law under discussion.

(l) Misconduct while the ball is out of play. A player, must not, while the ball is out of play, commit any misconduct, or obstruct or in any way interfere with an opponent.
Penalty: Penalty Kick
...
If a penalty kick is awarded but the offending team is guilty of further misconduct before the kick is taken, the referee cautions or orders off the guilty player and advances the mark for the penalty kick 10 metres. This covers both the original offence and the misconduct.

I guess your question covers the advancement of the penalty rather than the issuing of the card. I would advance the mark to the 5m line per Law 21.2:

21.2 WHERE PENALTY AND FREE KICKS ARE TAKEN
(a) ... If the place for a penalty or free kick is within 5 metres of the opponents’ goal line, the mark for the kick is 5 metres from the goal line, opposite the place of infringement.

As to the issuing of the card, it's interesting that the ref is given no option in law - the card must be given. On that basis, when we march a side back 10m for throwing the ball away we would all indiscriminately issue yellow cards as well. Any takers for that black and white approach?

 

[Gareth-Lee Smith]

Dixie - it would depends on the temper of the match really. If it was likely to spark a riot, off he goes.

Despite giving 10m OFTEN in Junior games, I'm yet to Bin somebody for it...

 

[Simon Thomas]

It is down to ref's management choice of the incident. What has actually happened, what is temper of game, etc.
I wonder if caution always means yellow card in this context ? If it means warn then it should say warn of course.

Then you can only take the kick forward as far as the 5m line Law 21.2 (a).

 

[OB..]

As to the issuing of the card, it's interesting that the ref is given no option in law - the card must be given.

The IRB backed away from this concept in respect of cards for penalty tries. I think we should do so here as well. The referee must be allowed to decide on the circumstances of the particular case.

 

[PaulDG]

It is down to ref's management choice of the incident. What has actually happened, what is temper of game, etc.
I wonder if caution always means yellow card in this context ? If it means warn then it should say warn of course.

"Caution" is a synonym for "warn".

If it had meant "yellow card", it would have said "caution and temporarily suspend".

 

[chopper15]

Scene A.
Pen. + further misconduct. Ref. considers only a caution is appropriate ( 'Look here chaps it's only a game' as opposed to a 'Next time you're OFF' warning: Is 'Caution ' really synonymous with 'Warn' in this context ?) and strides forward ten.

Scene B.
Pen. awarded within 5m + further misconduct (same as A above).

My ques. Would the ref. forgo ethics and yellow card the miscreant to compensate?

 

[chopper15]

Sorry Dixie, not really au fait with 'Copy' and 'paste' yet. My age y'know!

 

[OB..]

"Caution" is a synonym for "warn".

If it had meant "yellow card", it would have said "caution and temporarily suspend".

I don't think so. The normal phrase, as you say, is "caution and temporarily suspend", but the word "admonish" is carefully used when no card is implied.

The Laws are not entirely consistent in their usage (so what's new?), but 10.2 (a) spells it out:

The player who intentionally offends must be either admonished, or cautioned that a send off will result if the offence or a similar offence is committed, or sent off. After a caution a player is temporarily suspended for a period of ten minutes playing time.​

 

[Jacko]

'Look here chaps it's only a game'

Did you attend Eton by any chance??

 

[Simon Thomas]

Eton would be 'old boy'.

'Chaps' is more Malborough, Wellington, Uppingham or Hailebury.

 

[chopper15]

OK chaps what's the f*****g answer?

 

[Robert Burns]

Answer is advance to 5m line if not already on it.

If already on 5m line make a decision on if said play was deliberate in order to waste time or just frustration, consider yellow card if game deems it, or a 'don't do that again' bollocking if the game doesn't.

(If deleiberate you may advance & yellow card if not already on 5m, If you're feeling particularly nasty)

 

[chopper15]

Ref. Simon Thomas;
'Chaps' is more Malborough, Wellington, Uppingham or Hailebury.




We've got Spreadbury's 'chaps', so what's the favourite for the collective . . . . the street-wise American 'Guys', I suppose?

 

[Simon Thomas]

RFU National Panel and Group refs tend use the term '"Fellas"'.

I always refer to players in a group as "Gentlemen" (even U18s) or "Ladies", as appropriate. Side benefit of an expensive education I suppose - lol.

 

[chopper15]

Ref. Simon Thomas: I always refer to players in a group as "Gentlemen" (even U18s) or "Ladies", as appropriate. Side benefit of an expensive education I suppose - lol.


Particularly when a couple of hairy ar*ed forwards are hand-bagging each other?

 

[Simon Thomas]

Exactly chopper - cool calm collected and polite.

Confrontation management training recommends assertive but yet calm vocabularly, positive body language and respect being shown.

 

[Davet]

Thanks for that.

What prompted the post?

 

[PaulDG]

Thanks for that.

What prompted the post?

My guess would be a botnet trying to boost hits at the linked site.

 

[OB..]

Leave it or bin it? I vote for binning.