[Law] Pre match briefings

[OB..]

I do it that way, but I also see refs who mark the centre point, and refs who mark both lines

Yes, I see all three on a regular basis.

 

[crossref]

Yes, I see all three on a regular basis.

i wonder if it would be helpful for the players if we standardised.
Or perhaps it's just too trivial to bother about

 

[OB..]

i wonder if it would be helpful for the players if we standardised.
Or perhaps it's just too trivial to bother about

Why do people mark the defensive line? I am told it allows the throwing side to stand further back if they wish.
That doesn't appear to be what WR had in mind.[LAWS]19.8 [FONT=fs_blakeregular]Metre gap. Each line of players must be half a metre on their side of the line of touch.[/FONT][FONT=fs_blakeregular]
[/FONT]
Sanction: Free Kick on the 15-metre line[/LAWS]

No referee marks every lineout, so players will then align themselves on the TJ (= line of touch) anyway.

 

[crossref]

Why do people mark the defensive line? .

I settled on it because it just seems to work better - if you mark the centre the non-throwing team creep in, and then the throwing team give a little, then the non-throwers edge again, and then the throwing hooker complains and it's all very tiresome.

give the defending team an actual mark and they pretty much stand on it.

 

[Camquin]

I was told to mark both on my ELRA - of course that could have been that trainers personal preference.
But as I mainly coach and ref girls, there is little kicking, so few lineouts, so it is not a burden.

 

[SimonSmith]

Setting expectations - what to expect of me, especially at the breakdown.
I guess you could just say nothing at all, after all, they all know the laws, right?

Mark

This I think is critically where we differ.
I set expectations for them - I don't tell them what I'm going to do, or how I'm going to call things. Too much potential to be backed into a corner. "But you said you would always say 'maul'..."

 

[OB..]

I settled on it because it just seems to work better - if you mark the centre the non-throwing team creep in, and then the throwing team give a little, then the non-throwers edge again, and then the throwing hooker complains and it's all very tiresome.

I have never seen that. The referee usually sets the gap at the first couple of lineouts and then expects the players to do that every time.

give the defending team an actual mark and they pretty much stand on it.

Do you give them a mark every time? If not, how is it different from what I usually see (after the first couple of lineouts)?

 

[liversedge]

This I think is critically where we differ.
I set expectations for them - I don't tell them what I'm going to do, or how I'm going to call things. Too much potential to be backed into a corner. "But you said you would always say 'maul'..."

It works well for me, at the level I am currently refereeing, perhaps I can be less communicative at higher levels. But here at 10+1 the players respond well.

And anyway, I always call maul

Mark

 

[ChrisR]

From SS: "I don't tell them what I'm going to do, or how I'm going to call things."

From my experience the more a referee tells you what & how the less he actually does. There is nothing that lowers a players respect for a referee is a long, bombastic PMB followed by a poor performance with the whistle.

I don't expect infallibility in a referee but I do expect empathy and respect.

 

[crossref]

Do you give them a mark every time? If not, how is it different from what I usually see (after the first couple of lineouts)?

If I am there before they line up then I'll always make a mark, yes.

But if they get there and line up before I have had chance to make a mark then I leave them to it.

 

[ChrisR]

Why should the referee make a mark at a lineout? The TJ/AR is the mark. The thrower needs to be on it and both sides need to be 1/2m from it.

 

[crossref]

Why should the referee make a mark at a lineout? The TJ/AR is the mark. The thrower needs to be on it and both sides need to be 1/2m from it.

In my games the TJ is usually a sub, and they rarely stand still
Plus if I make a mark I find they stand on it, and all goes smoothly

 

[Pegleg]

TJs are from each team. Sides do not trust each others TJ. We are independent, therefore some trust. At the level with ARS probably less need.

 

[OB..]

TJs are from each team. Sides do not trust each others TJ. We are independent, therefore some trust. At the level with ARS probably less need.

How often do you make your mark other than as indicated by the TJ? It is very rare to have a side query the spot marked by the TJ. and in such cases (TJ does not know the law about gain in ground, for example) the referee is usually on it at once anyway.

 

[Pegleg]

Never realy counted. However, you miss my point. IF I make the mark the players respect it. When I seen other not make it players have questioned the line of touch. Obviously I can't say they would have questioned any in my game had I not given them the mark, as it is a purely hypothetical question. One that can't be satifactorily answered.

We are, in the sunny part of Wales, in any case told to mark the line. Some assessors ask for both lines to be marked. The one I found works best in to mark the non-throwing team's line. Telling the throwing side to set the gap. They will usually be more keen to have a good gap of course. It works so I see no reason to stop.

I listen to assessors and try things keeping what works and dumping what does not work for me. There is no one size fits all when it comes to reffing. Suck it and see.

 

[lawsons]

Pre match process.

Introduce myself to coach,
Quick chat about conditions [optional ice breaker]
"when would you like to do studs etc?"
Check studs
"Front row, scrum half and skipper please"
C-B-S, to FR :"If you have any safety concerns about the conditions, let me know"
To SH - "Don't go into the gap between flanker & No 8. I'll keep the flanker straight."
To Captain: " Are you going in ? [presume yes], I'll give you a knock 5mins before KO. I want you out at 3 mins before Ko"
"Any questions?" to captain only

Done. Never change it, never have any problems.
I was told early on, by a wise old ref, the more you speak, the deeper the hole you dig. Totally agree. Fallen in it many times.

 

[Pegleg]

Can you confirm you mean you say that you will tell the flanker "not to widen his angle" as opposed to "keeping him straight"?

 

[Drift]

Setting expectations - what to expect of me, especially at the breakdown.
I guess you could just say nothing at all, after all, they all know the laws, right?

Mark

Yep. They should all be coached to play within the laws and they will learn pretty quickly what your tolerances are.

 

[Dickie E]

I must say that my FR briefing is much longer & more detailed than what others have described here and that is based on the safety risk involved in a scrum failure (ie no-one has ever ended up in a wheelchair because a quick tap wasn't taken properly).

I cover:
1. FR binding
2. expecations at each of the C-B-S calls
3. requirement for a long bind for the life of the scrum
4. requirement to push straight
5. an invitation to FR to let me know if they are experiencing any problems
6. (for U19): clarify how far 1.5 metres is and understanding of Mayday procedure

Followed up with zero tolerance for first couple of scrums (early engagement, hit & chase, short binds, etc)

 

[liversedge]

Yep. They should all be coached to play within the laws and they will learn pretty quickly what your tolerances are.

Fair enough, are you arguing that no briefing is required at all ?

Mark