Additional Trials - Law 16 'Breakdown'

[crossref]

the WR press release at christmas announced three new trials to be performed in 2016 - on Laws 15 (tackle) 16 ('breakdown') and 17 (maul)

The Law 16 Trial is interesting, especially the first sentence (1)

(NB They refer to Law 16 as Breakdown, but in the Law book it is called Law 16 - Ruck),

Law 16 - Breakdown

1. A breakdown commences when at least one player from the attacking team is on their
feet and over the ball which is on the ground (Tackled player, tackler + 1). At this
point the offside line is created. (New definition)

2. Only players acting as a half-back can play the ball with their hands (lift the ball out
of the breakdown). They must be on their feet and on-side. They must subsequently
run, pass or kick. (New 16.2 – Joining a breakdown). A half-back is any one player
who is not part of the breakdown and behind the hindmost foot who is in a position to
play the ball emerging from the breakdown. The hindmost foot will be the offside line
for half-back players.

3. Offside line at a ruck is the back foot + 1 metre. If the back foot of the hindmost
player is on or behind the goal line, the offside line for the defending team is the goal
line. To be policed by AR’s (New 16.5 (a) – Offside at the breakdown)

4. All arriving players must come from an onside position (see 3 above) and can enter
their side of the breakdown mid-point (no gate). Players must remain on their feet.
(New 16.5 (c) )

5. No players at breakdown can have hands on the ground beyond the ball, hold onto or
lean on or have knees on players on the ground. Players off their feet sealing the ball
will be penalized. Arriving players encouraged drive over/ past the ball (Existing
16.4)

6. Players must not handle the ball in a breakdown once the breakdown is formed. Once
the breakdown contest is formed the player must release the ball. (New 16.4 – Other
breakdown offences)

7. The breakdown ends when the ball emerges or the ball is picked up (New 16.6 –
Successful end to a breakdown)

So

1. A breakdown commences when at least one player from the attacking team is on their
feet and over the ball which is on the ground (Tackled player, tackler + 1). At this
point the offside line is created. (New definition)

By 'attacking team' I think they must mean the team in possession (?)

So this means that at a tackle a support runner arriving at the tackle immediately creates an offside line, all on his own... that's very similar to the trial of an automatic offside-line at every tackle which they had to abandon really quickly.

It means that when a ball carrier breaks the defensive line and is tackled by the full back, his support runner arriving at the tackle creates an offside line that renders every single opponent offside... useful.

 

[ChrisR]

I suspect that this is an attempt to head off the 'no ruck' development last year.

 

[Dixie]

Is it intended to be the death-knell of traditional #7 play as perfected by Sir Richie?

1. A breakdown commences when at least one player from the attacking team is on their
feet and over the ball which is on the ground (Tackled player, tackler + 1). At this
point the offside line is created. (New definition)

6. Players must not handle the ball in a breakdown once the breakdown is formed. Once
the breakdown contest is formed the player must release the ball. (New 16.4 – Other
breakdown offences)

So White 12 tackles Black 12. First arrival is Black 7 (surprise surprise). By arriving, Black 7 has commenced ("formed") the breakdown. Consequently, Black 7 cannot touch ("handle") the ball at any time after his arrival. The defending 7, on the other hand, is free to do so if he can get there first.

The new ruck offside line is ambiguous - what is meant by "back foot + 1m"? Looked at from the player's perspective, the offside line is now half way up the ruck, as the offside line is not "back foot minus 1m". Notwithstanding the apparently incomplete text regarding the goal line, I suspect this is not what was intended - the intent is surely to place the offside line 1m back from the rear foot, not 1m forward of it. If so, we need a new offside line for the half back. One such is created at the hindmost foot for the breakdown, but as soon as that turns into a ruck by a defender grabbing an attacker, the half-back has to retire `1m - making it hard for him to distribute!

Equally, in the absence of any half-back offside line, no rucker can pick and drive. If he's unbound from the ruck he's offside, being less than 1m behind the back foot. If he's still bound he's handling in the ruck. So no forward pickup, and the half back is too far back to pick up - sounds like a great game!

 

[ChrisR]

A half-back is any one player
who is not part of the breakdown and behind the hindmost foot who is in a position to
play the ball emerging from the breakdown. The hindmost foot will be the offside line
for half-back players.

Here's the part you skipped over from item 2.

The part about pick-'n-go's is interesting coz I think it will increase the ploy. The latcher will have to start 1m back but the picker has an extra meter of uncontested ground. Not sure if it's worth it but for teams that use it they'll get a bonus meter each go.

 

[crossref]

The part about pick-'n-go's is interesting coz I think it will increase the ploy. The latcher will have to start 1m back but the picker has an extra meter of uncontested ground. Not sure if it's worth it but for teams that use it they'll get a bonus meter each go.

so the rearmost player in the ruck will detach and become the latcher, so we refs will have to watch for him being properly bound.

 

[Dixie]

A half-back is any one player who is not part of the breakdown and behind the hindmost foot who is in a position to play the ball emerging from the breakdown. The hindmost foot will be the offside line for half-back players.

Here's the part you skipped over from item 2.

Marauder, I didn't skip over it - I referenced it by saying:

One such is created at the hindmost foot for the breakdown, but as soon as that turns into a ruck by a defender grabbing an attacker, the half-back has to retire 1m - making it hard for him to distribute!

It seems to me that the Breakdown is a new phase which (if it exists at all) will typically be a short phase between Tackle and Ruck. So the tackle takes place - nothing new here. Attacker arrives - breakdown commences, establishing offside lines (for the half-back at the hindmost foot). As soon as the attacker is grabbed by an opponent, a ruck forms (existing law) with the offside line immediately moving 1m (direction uncertain). If it moves 1m behind the back foot, the half-back who was onside at the breakdown now becomes offside, because the Breakdown has finished and a Ruck has formed - and there does not seem to be a halfback-only offside line at the Ruck.

 

[ChrisR]

Unfortunately this trial was not presented in the form of fully documented law amendments. Common sense suggests that the SH offside at breakdown will convey to the scrum.

 

[Dixie]

Unfortunately this trial was not presented in the form of fully documented law amendments. Common sense suggests that the SH offside at breakdown will convey to the ruck.

Agreed - but with a half-back already in place, the pick'n'drive is outlawed due to the 1m gap between the new ruck offside line and the ruck itself - unless there can be more than one halfback? Equally, how can anyone join the ruck without first being offside? This smacks of a trial provision that hasn't been subjected to any quality control at all - very poor for a World Governing Body. They seem to assume that if it's better than FIFA, it's all good!

 

[Ian_Cook]

Is it intended to be the death-knell of traditional #7 play as perfected by Sir Richie?

1. A breakdown commences when at least one player from the attacking team is on their
feet and over the ball which is on the ground (Tackled player, tackler + 1). At this
point the offside line is created. (New definition)

6. Players must not handle the ball in a breakdown once the breakdown is formed. Once
the breakdown contest is formed the player must release the ball. (New 16.4 – Other
breakdown offences)

So White 12 tackles Black 12. First arrival is Black 7 (surprise surprise). By arriving, Black 7 has commenced ("formed") the breakdown. Consequently, Black 7 cannot touch ("handle") the ball at any time after his arrival. The defending 7, on the other hand, is free to do so if he can get there first.

No. All that it changes is that it no longer requires players from each team to form a ruck

When Black 7 arrives at the the tackle, be can still go for the ball, because Law 16.4 (b) has not changed. Black 7 will form the "breakdown" simultaneously with his arrival and attempt to jackle.

 

[Nigib]

No. All that it changes is that it no longer requires players from each team to form a ruck

When Black 7 arrives at the the tackle, be can still go for the ball, because Law 16.4 (b) has not changed. Black 7 will form the "breakdown" simultaneously with his arrival and attempt to jackle.

Surely there would need to be a difference between 'commences' and 'formed' to enable jackling - I can't see that as the intent from the words as they are writ here. I'm inferring that the breakdown in new definition starts with one player over the ball, and a ruck would then form when an oppo player is in physical contact with them. No room for jackling afaics.

 

[tim White]

How does this add anything to the existing laws? If the existing laws are applied we don't need any new ones, do we? :shrug:

 

[crossref]

How does this add anything to the existing laws? If the existing laws are applied we don't need any new ones, do we? :shrug:

at the moment it takes a player from each team to form a ruck, and hence offside lines
the variation they will trial is that just one player arriving from the ball carrier's team is enough to form a 'breakdown' and offside lines.

NB I read it that rucks no longer exist, we would just have breakdowns. New name (presumably) to emphasise that this really is different

 

[didds]

I would humbly suggest

5. No players at breakdown can have hands on the ground beyond the ball, hold onto or
lean on or have knees on players on the ground. Players off their feet sealing the ball
will be penalized. Arriving players encouraged drive over/ past the ball (Existing
16.4)

is all that is required. Now arriving players have to either pick, clear (includes standing over the ball in preparation for an almost arrived opponent) or get out of the way. Simples.

didds

didds

 

[Pinky]

No. All that it changes is that it no longer requires players from each team to form a ruck

When Black 7 arrives at the the tackle, be can still go for the ball, because Law 16.4 (b) has not changed. Black 7 will form the "breakdown" simultaneously with his arrival and attempt to jackle.

Ian, the way I read this, the arriving 7 would only be allowed to play the ball with his hands if he was acting as the halfback. He creates the "breakdown" and at that point everyone but the half back has to let go of the ball.

 

[Pinky]

Marauder, I didn't skip over it - I referenced it by saying:

One such is created at the hindmost foot for the breakdown, but as soon as that turns into a ruck by a defender grabbing an attacker, the half-back has to retire 1m - making it hard for him to distribute!

It seems to me that the Breakdown is a new phase which (if it exists at all) will typically be a short phase between Tackle and Ruck. So the tackle takes place - nothing new here. Attacker arrives - breakdown commences, establishing offside lines (for the half-back at the hindmost foot). As soon as the attacker is grabbed by an opponent, a ruck forms (existing law) with the offside line immediately moving 1m (direction uncertain). If it moves 1m behind the back foot, the half-back who was onside at the breakdown now becomes offside, because the Breakdown has finished and a Ruck has formed - and there does not seem to be a halfback-only offside line at the Ruck.

Dixie, I'm with Crossref on this - I think this largely replaces the ruck. As with current ruck and maul the breakdown will continue until there is a successful end (or some infringement).

Not sure how you are to decide players are off side if they are moving to join in the mele!

 

[Ian_Cook]

Surely there would need to be a difference between 'commences' and 'formed' to enable jackling - I can't see that as the intent from the words as they are writ here. I'm inferring that the breakdown in new definition starts with one player over the ball, and a ruck would then form when an oppo player is in physical contact with them. No room for jackling afaics.

Ian, the way I read this, the arriving 7 would only be allowed to play the ball with his hands if he was acting as the halfback. He creates the "breakdown" and at that point everyone but the half back has to let go of the ball.

If what you are saying is true, then it logically follows that as soon as the player acting as halfback gets his hands on the ball, he forms a breakdown, and no-one can now touch him.

That does not seem right to me.

 

[menace]

No. All that it changes is that it no longer requires players from each team to form a ruck

When Black 7 arrives at the the tackle, be can still go for the ball, because Law 16.4 (b) has not changed. Black 7 will form the "breakdown" simultaneously with his arrival and attempt to jackle.

But does Black 7 have to use the 'gate' at the tackle when trying to form a breakdown or can they enter at any angle? It seems to be silent on tackle entry but rather incorrectly refers to a gate as 'ruck gate' i.e. entering the breakdown.

 

[Ian_Cook]

But does Black 7 have to use the 'gate' at the tackle when trying to form a breakdown or can they enter at any angle? It seems to be silent on tackle entry but rather incorrectly refers to a gate as 'ruck gate' i.e. entering the breakdown.

AIUI, for the trial, the tackle gate is dead.

[LAWS]4. All arriving players must come from an onside position (see 3 above) and can enter
their side of the breakdown mid-point (no gate).[/LAWS]
All players, tackler or not, must come in from behind the midpoint of the breakdown, behind being defined as anywhere in the 180° arc between the ball and the player's own goal-line.

The picture I have in my head is that at most breakdowns the ball will not be at the midpoint, it will be closer to one team or the other. Whichever team has the ball in their half of the breakdown is going to have a huge advantage because they will be able to join ahead of the ball while their opponents will get nowhere near it. Yes, players have to approach from an onside position, but that doesn't mean they cannot drive past the offside line to join the breakdown, in fact, they will be encouraged to do so

[LAWS]5. No players at breakdown can have hands on the ground beyond the ball, hold onto or
lean on or have knees on players on the ground. Players off their feet sealing the ball
will be penalized. Arriving players encouraged drive over/ past the ball (Existing
16.4)[/LAWS]
How can you drive over/past the ball without first driving past the offside line?

MO, this is going to be an absolute mess and make it even more difficult to referee. Even worse, it will make turnovers nearly impossible to get and we know what will happen when coaches see that

Aerial ping-pong anyone?

 

[menace]

AIUI, for the trial, the tackle gate is dead.

[LAWS]4. All arriving players must come from an onside position (see 3 above) and can enter
their side of the breakdown mid-point (no gate).[/LAWS]
All players, tackler or not, must come in from behind the midpoint of the breakdown, behind being defined as anywhere in the 180° arc between the ball and the player's own goal-line.

The picture I have in my head is that at most breakdowns the ball will not be at the midpoint, it will be closer to one team or the other. Whichever team has the ball in their half of the breakdown is going to have a huge advantage because they will be able to join ahead of the ball while their opponents will get nowhere near it. Yes, players have to approach from an onside position, but that doesn't mean they cannot drive past the offside line to join the breakdown, in fact, they will be encouraged to do so

[LAWS]5. No players at breakdown can have hands on the ground beyond the ball, hold onto or
lean on or have knees on players on the ground. Players off their feet sealing the ball
will be penalized. Arriving players encouraged drive over/ past the ball (Existing
16.4)[/LAWS]
How can you drive over/past the ball without first driving past the offside line?

MO, this is going to be an absolute mess and make it even more difficult to referee. Even worse, it will make turnovers nearly impossible to get and we know what will happen when coaches see that

Aerial ping-pong anyone?

Thanks. You may be right but the 'breakdown' aiui replaces the ruck.....there is no gate at the ruck? The gate only applies to the tackle? I think they used the term as a convenient way of referring to side entry at a ruck which is now removed. I'm not sure it applies to the tackle? If it does then I can see the attacking team that is attempting to form a breakdown quickly will have have their head facing the wrong way? Opposition will be cleaning out butts not heads!:shrug::shrug::wtf: This is getting a whole lot of ugly very quickly.

 

[Nigib]

If what you are saying is true, then it logically follows that as soon as the player acting as halfback gets his hands on the ball, he forms a breakdown, and no-one can now touch him.

That does not seem right to me.

The difference for me is that the breakdown is formed with one player standing over the ball; the player in halfback role is waiting for the ball to emerge. I'm not trying to defend any of this, I simply can't see enough information to judge just how barmy it is