Age vs Ability

[RugbyGeek]

Hi Folks,

Going to play devil's advocate here - those who know me won't be surprised

I recently had a chat with a L6 ref who has done the rounds, and he suggested that at 40, irrespective of my ability, I wil never progress beyond L6 - due to the lateness at which I am starting to ref full time...

Any views?

 

[Dixie]

I'd say that is probably a fair generalisation - but like any generalisation, there may be exceptions. I don't know if you are aware of the way the hierarchy works, but Societies tend to appoint up to L.7. Federations formed from a number of neighbouring Societies generally appoint at L.6, with L.5 being appointed to by a Group of neighbouring Federations, encompassing a broad geographical region. L.4 and up is the National Panel. In Devon, your group (like mine) is South West Group.

As you get up the ladder, the increments are more demanding. There's not a huge difference between L.10 and L.11, and some L.11 games are more challenging than many L.10's. But a 7 is very different from an 8, and 6 is something else again. To get from there to 5 requires an investment in the referee, and in allocating these scares investment resources, the powers that be prefer to be comfortable that the referee will be able to deliver a return on that investment for some years to come. If it's a choice between equally good candidates, one aged 45 and the other 35, a rational choice is to invest in the 35 year-old.

 

[RugbyGeek]

Thanks Dixie,

Whilst I don't, in principle, disagree; I'd hate to think that I am embarking down this road with a very real glass ceiling being erected above me before I have even begun..

To borrow a phrase, everyone ultimately will reach their own level of incomptetence - I'd just like my ability to be that judge, and not my age.....

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

I started at 44 and have reached the dizzy heights of L9 (after 18 months) - still there after 4.5 seasons!:sad:

I'm going to give it one more year at progressing then I'll fade away into the sunset.:Zip:

 

[ExHookah]

I don't think that anyone should enter the refereeing ranks with a "this level or a quit" type mindset. People will progress in different ways. I think it is also important to understand that on paper, or from outside the match, the different levels of rugby are very different once you step into the middle.

Don't start out with viewing any kind of ceiling being in play, just go out, do the matches and aim to give the players the best experience possible. Rugby is not a complex match as long as you remember the two main issues:

1) Ball Availability.
2) Space to use it.

The law book is long, deep and complicated, but it boils down to some simple issues.

 

[RugbyGeek]

I don't think that anyone should enter the refereeing ranks with a "this level or a quit" type mindset. People will progress in different ways. I think it is also important to understand that on paper, or from outside the match, the different levels of rugby are very different once you step into the middle.

Don't start out with viewing any kind of ceiling being in play, just go out, do the matches and aim to give the players the best experience possible. Rugby is not a complex match as long as you remember the two main issues:

1) Ball Availability.
2) Space to use it.

The law book is long, deep and complicated, but it boils down to some simple issues.

Sage words Ex, just that as with all things, we are naturally competitive.

We all appreciate the game is about the players - and not us. However, we (naturally) want to achieve our best - and not be encumbered by something we have little or no control over.

 

[ExHookah]

Sage words Ex, just that as with all things, we are naturally competitive.

We all appreciate the game is about the players - and not us. However, we (naturally) want to achieve our best - and not be encumbered by something we have little or no control over.

Oh, I totally agree with you. I have to deal with the fact that because my body shape is that of a cement truck, people assume I am immobile. This somehow continues to be the assumption even as I keep pace with wingers and cross the goal line with them. With legs the size of mine, how people can assume I will eve lack for pace is baffling. (thickness, not length, before Phil E chimes in!)

 

[Phil E]

I started at 44 and have reached the dizzy heights of L9 (after 18 months) - still there after 4.5 seasons!:sad:

As we all know time moves considerably slower in Yorkshire :wink:

Geek

I started at 47 and got to L9 last season (3rd full season).

I always said I would be happy to get to L11, then when I got there I wanted to get to 10, then I wanted to get to 9. Now I want to get to L8. Currently I think that might be my limit, but I know if I ever get to 8 I will then want to try for 7.

It's only natural to want to be better.

Starting at 40 you have plenty of time to progress.

My advice would be take it one level at a time and enjoy it. If you enjoy it, then the level doesn't matter.

 

[Chickref]

Sage words Ex, just that as with all things, we are naturally competitive.

We all appreciate the game is about the players - and not us. However, we (naturally) want to achieve our best - and not be encumbered by something we have little or no control over.

Tell me about it...

No, I jest a little, but it comes to the point where you know you cannot go further due to fitness or inbuilt leg speed or injuries.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Tell me about it...

No, I jest a little, but it comes to the point where you know you cannot go further due to fitness or inbuilt leg speed or injuries.

Like players and coaches referees are 'selected' (for grade levels, development squads, etc) based on assessments of their performances and competitive comparison to their peer group. The higher you get the more competitive it is.

If your fitness, inbuilt leg speed or injuries restrict your mobility that (along
with level of law knowledge and its material application, evidenced match management and communication skills) will affect your progress in competition with others.

Societies, Groups, National Panels, IRB appoint their referees based on proven measured performance and management suitability.

 

[Dickie E]

Maybe its just me but I don't give a rats what level games I ref. I get as much out of an U16 game as out of a Senior game. Just as long as I'm out there having a run.

Maybe that's why the appointments guy likes me.

 

[ExHookah]

Maybe its just me but I don't give a rats what level games I ref. I get as much out of an U16 game as out of a Senior game. Just as long as I'm out there having a run.

Maybe that's why the appointments guy likes me.

That's the spirit!

 

[Mickman]

Juniors doesn't really worry me about the grade anymore. BUT this has changed from when I first started out. When I first started refereeing and I was only refereeing Juniors I was always hoping for the older grades BUT now I am refereeing both Juniors and Seniors I love just rocking up to my local club on Friday nights (to referee juniors) and getting the younger grades u10s/ u11s/ u12s. It's all about just letting them RUN!!! Only the REALLY obvious stuff gets pulled up (with an explanation to both teams, WHY it's a PK/FK etc.) then back to more RUNNING!!! I feel u13s is where there is a need to focus on the Laws more than just letting them run.

Seniors however, I am always trying to better myself and strive to progress through the grades while giving the teams the best possible experience I can.

 

[Account Deleted]

Like players and coaches referees are 'selected' (for grade levels, development squads, etc) based on assessments of their performances and competitive comparison to their peer group. The higher you get the more competitive it is.[/QUOTE

Agree with that. BUT, when you see some of the "elite" guys you wonder "how bad was the competition?"

If your fitness, inbuilt leg speed or injuries restrict your mobility that (along
with level of law knowledge and its material application, evidenced match management and communication skills) will affect your progress in competition with others.

And sadly, the older we get some of these naturally decline. On the other hand, some of them can get better with age.

Societies, Groups, National Panels, IRB appoint their referees based on proven measured performance and management suitability.

My first comment suggests that this is not always apparent.

 

[RugbyGeek]

I think the consensus is that we'd all LIKE to think we are judged by our own limitations - ability, fitness, speed, etc, but the reality is that, as with all things, there are agendas at play and that ultimately all we can (and should) do is blow the games we are given to the best of our ability..

Let Karma decide the rest ;-)

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

Let Karma decide the rest ;-)

You're not Glenn Hoddle are you?

 

[RugbyGeek]

You're not Glenn Hoddle are you?

Nah - my Spanish talent identification academy failed horribly...

 

[Dixie]

ultimately all we can (and should) do is blow the games we are given to the best of our ability..

Let Karma decide the rest ;-)

Geek, the best advice I can you is to be your Society's "Martini man" - any time, any place any level (to slightly paraphrase the 1970's ads). That, coupled with Dickie's determination to respect and enjoy every game as though it was a step-up from what you normally get, will stand you in excellent stead as you go through your career.

 

[didds]

Thanks Dixie,

Whilst I don't, in principle, disagree; I'd hate to think that I am embarking down this road with a very real glass ceiling being erected above me before I have even begun..

To borrow a phrase, everyone ultimately will reach their own level of incomptetence - I'd just like my ability to be that judge, and not my age.....

whilst I sympathise with your genmeral point, I would like to say that you'd hopefully get as much enjoyment from reffing lower grades and youth matches, who equally deserve an enthusisartic and ambitiopus ref.

Just be the BEST ref you can be etc [in the same way that some of us coaches accept we'll never reach the giddy heights of level 3 so just have to try and be the best level 2 coach they can be ]

attitude is everything - labels _can_ be meaningless. My son has just attained his black belt at judo this weekend - so i've done some reading (it ony took me 7 years to do so!)... and to find that attainment of black belt is the START of a journey, and that black belt is less about fighting then it is about demeanour and attitiude. Or at least the stuff I read said that!


didds

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

that attainment of black belt is the START of a journey, and that black belt is less about fighting then it is about demeanour and attitiude.

Grasshopper!