Ball touches corner flag and out.

[wolfie]

From this Saturday.

Attackers kick on, ball bounces in the corner near try line and touch line, hits the corner post and goes out over the touch line (not touch in goal).

I gave a line out to the defending team on the 5m.

But I couldn't help but think I had got it wrong based on the thought that is the flag post part of touch in goal? I also recall seeing a video of Steve Walsh over ruling his TJ (that gave what I did) and SW awarded a 22m drop out.

So if the Flag post is part of TIG should it not be 22m drop out or scrum back?

I have asked a couple of ref's what they think and they said I was correct based on the new ELV that says the Flag post is now part of the field of play (or words to that affect.)

And for the life of me I can not find it anywhere in the Law book where it says where the flag post stands, field of play or in goal?

Gents your thoughts please.

 

[KML1]

Forget about the Steve Walsh clip - old law!

You were right. The key thing is what happens after it hit the flag. If it goes into touch, touch law applies. If it goes TIG, then TIG law applies.

 

[Dixie]

And you won't find it in the law book, which has not been updated for the ELV's. Under "old" law, the flag was T-I-G, being placed on the interseection of the goal line (in-goal) and the touch/TIG line (both out of play). The natural consequence was, being out of play in-goal, when the ball touched the flag or its post, it was T-I-G. ELV 13 specifically now amends that. Except at its very base, the flag and its post is considered to be in the field of play.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Totally agree with KML1 and Dixie

 

[Adam]

New ELV: The corner flags are not deemed to be either touch, or touch-in-goal unless the ball has been grounded against it.

Therefore, KML1 and Dixie are perfectly correct.

 

[peterhunt]

So ball grounded against base of post is touch in goal?

 

[PaulDG]

So ball grounded against base of post is touch in goal?

The base of the corner post, yes.

The point is to take the post out of the equation (so as not to deny the crowd the spectacle of the "just squeezed in" try when the attacker has just brushed the corner post), not to take the line out of the equation.

 

[Phil E]

And you won't find it in the law book, which has not been updated for the ELV's. Under "old" law, the flag was T-I-G, being placed on the interseection of the goal line (in-goal) and the touch/TIG line (both out of play). The natural consequence was, being out of play in-goal, when the ball touched the flag or its post, it was T-I-G. ELV 13 specifically now amends that. Except at its very base, the flag and its post is considered to be in the field of play.

At the risk of being pedantic :wow:

Under the old Law the "flag" was not TIG, touching the flag had no effect. Only the "post" was TIG.

 

[tim White]

Double pedant: If the flag was blowing outside the field of play it was in touch 'ball touches anyone or anything outside the field of play.......' unless you read the law to exclude the flag under any circumstances.

 

[chopper15]

ELV.Law 22.12 BALL OR PLAYER TOUCHING A FLAG OR FLAG (CORNER) POST
If the ball or a player carrying the ball touches a flag or a flag (corner) post at the
intersection of the touch-in-goal line and the goal line or at the intersection of the
touch-in-goal line and dead ball line without otherwise being in touch or touch-ingoal,
the ball is not out of play, unless it is first grounded against a flag post.

 

[Phil E]

Double pedant: If the flag was blowing outside the field of play it was in touch 'ball touches anyone or anything outside the field of play.......' unless you read the law to exclude the flag under any circumstances.

OK, we are talking extreme rugby here, but to humour you:

Under old law of course; You are running down the right hand touch line with the ball tucked under your left arm, if as you pass the flag your arm is outside the post and touches the flag, you were not in touch, but if you touched the post you were.

Ball crosses plane of touch, touches the flag, then gets blown back into the field of play or in goal. It's NOT in touch.

 

[chopper15]

OK, we are talking extreme rugby here, but to humour you:

Under old law of course; You are running down the right hand touch line with the ball tucked under your left arm, if as you pass the flag your arm is outside the post and touches the flag, you were not in touch, but if you touched the post you were.

Ball crosses plane of touch, touches the flag, then gets blown back into the field of play or in goal. It's NOT in touch.

Of course the corner flag used to be in touch under the old law, Phil.:hap:

 

[Phil E]

Of course the corner flag used to be in touch under the old law, Phil.:hap:

Sigh.........."under the Law prior to the ELV's."

Happy now?

 

[chopper15]

Sigh.........."under the Law prior to the ELV's."

Happy now?

Not quite, Phil. Would you be thinking of that fluttery bit at the top?:hap:

 

[Simon Thomas]

oh ffs - 99 red balloons !

"corner flag" is commonly used generic term to describe the full ensemble which may consist of

1. wooden or in more modern times plastic pole
2. cloth or plastic (limp or stiff) flag
3. pole padding

1 usually present, 2 often present and 3 sometimes present - 2 & 3 sometimes with a sponsor's message.

 

[Phil E]

A flag is a piece of cloth, often flown from a pole or mast, generally used symbolically for signaling or identification. The term flag is also used to refer to the graphic design employed by a flag, or to its depiction in another medium.

Flag pole, a metal, wooden or plastic pole from which a flag is hung

You are running down the right hand touch line with the ball tucked under your left arm, if as you pass the flag your arm is outside the post (or pole) and touches the flag,

 

[OB..]

It was always held that touching the flag on a corner post did not put the player in touch, principally because it could well be some distance infield from the post itself.

The ball touching the flag when it is blowing away from the pitch is a problem I have never seen raised before. It is hard to imagine a scenario where it would matter. What happened next would almost certainly be decisive.

 

[gillburt]

Presumably under the ELV it does not matter as effectively the flag "is not there" anymore.

So if ball hits the "non-existent" pole which is leaning outside the pitch, it has gone into touch.
No different to hitting a spectator and going back into field of play.

 

[Davet]

If the ball hits the corner post and bounces back in to FoP or IG it is In Play - so play on. The angle of the post is entirely irrelevant.

Even if the ball bounces off the base of the post.

It is ONLY out of play if it GROUNDED against the BASE of the corner post, and to be grounded it must be either touched to ground by a player carrying it, or pressed down on the ground by a player, with hand, arm or trunk.

No suitcase jokes, please.

 

[Deeps]

The base of the corner post, yes.

The point is to take the post out of the equation (so as not to deny the crowd the spectacle of the "just squeezed in" try when the attacker has just brushed the corner post), not to take the line out of the equation.

I was caught out early in the season having briefed this ELV to a couple of Colts sides and then subsequently denied a player a try when he flattened the post by stepping on its base as he went over. My explanation that his foot was t i g was not well received.