[Tackle] Bloody Creepers!!

[Phil E]

Well I'm happy to see this is not just my perception.

Thanks for the replies chaps; keep pinging those cheatin' creepers!

In the words of George Orwell "one roll good, two rolls bad"....at least I think that's what he said in "Rugby Farm"?

 

[VM75]

Ian,

this 'rolling to buy time' or lurching forwards or practice has been steadily on the increase for up to 6 years in my experience. it's a coached technique which overextends the licence to jackknife & present that has been allowable once the grounded player's MOMENTUM has ceased.

Allowing it adds to the wider game problem of lack of turnovers that see's teams 'protected' in 20/30/40+ phases of repeat possession nowadays

My benchmark for PK is
a] does a potential 'ball thief' have a realistic [proximity/timing] chance to steal , that is materially removed by the roll/crawl
if yes - PK the BC roller
if no - then it's immaterial to the continuity of possession.

I'll say "Roll was only buying time" as an indication to those listening why i've PK'd, or "not making ball available soon enough"

Players soon adapt & work out their timings, if not escalation strategy gets the same message across.

 

[Zebra1922]

My benchmark for PK is
a] does a potential 'ball thief' have a realistic [proximity/timing] chance to steal , that is materially removed by the roll/crawl
if yes - PK the BC roller
if no - then it's immaterial to the continuity of possession.

Pretty good judgement, although I do wish player would consider materiality more in their appealing. A back stepping up offside, realising they've gone too early and retreating is not offside in my book sand I wish it wasn't in the eyes of the 4 opposition player who immediately shout 'offside' even when the ball is still nowhere near reappearing from the ruck.

 

[didds]

PK them for "advice"?

 

[ChrisR]

Watching hi-lites England/Scotland with Nigel Owens in the middle.

At 1:50 Scotland PKd for off-side at the ruck as they block for the box kick. Yesssss!

At 2:20 England PKd for the BC rolling after the tackle. Yesssss! And NO invents a new referee signal.

Two irritating offences that typically go unpunished. Thank you, Nigel.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I've just seen a good example of what I was talking about in the OP (Item 2) in the France v England game. AT 76:45.

Blue 5 is tackled by White 16. White 7 is the arriving player, in the gate, standing over Blue 5 trying to jackle. Blue 5 drives himself forwards on the ground into White 7's legs, causing him to topple.

IMO, that ought to be a PK against Blue 5.

 

[Zebra1922]

I had a slightly different version where a player was tackled, not held, then continued to crawl 3-4m with oppositiOn players around him. I pinged him for crawling, effectively playing off his feet but he wasn’t happy saying he hadn’t been held. He was right but I don’t believe you can just crawl as far as you like as no one can tackle or compete for the ball.

 

[Rich_NL]

You're correct. "A player on the ground must..."

 

[Ian_Cook]

I had a slightly different version where a player was tackled, not held, then continued to crawl 3-4m with oppositiOn players around him. I pinged him for crawling, effectively playing off his feet but he wasn’t happy saying he hadn’t been held. He was right but I don’t believe you can just crawl as far as you like as no one can tackle or compete for the ball.

If he is not held, he is entitled to get to his feet with the ball (not held means not tackled). He is not entitled to crawl along the ground

However, even a tackled player can get to his feet, provided he first releases the ball. If he's quick enough, he releases the ball, pops to his feet and picks up the ball.... I've seen it done, but its quite rare.

 

[TheBFG]

I had a slightly different version where a player was tackled, not held, then continued to crawl 3-4m with oppositiOn players around him. I pinged him for crawling, effectively playing off his feet but he wasn’t happy saying he hadn’t been held. He was right but I don’t believe you can just crawl as far as you like as no one can tackle or compete for the ball.

"Rugby is a game played by players on their feet" Peep! Back 10 :wink:

 

[didds]

If he is not held, he is entitled to get to his feet with the ball (not held means not tackled). He is not entitled to crawl along the ground

However, even a tackled player can get to his feet, provided he first releases the ball. If he's quick enough, he releases the ball, pops to his feet and picks up the ball.... I've seen it done, but its quite rare.

Several examples by the French women's side in the 2017 6N

 

[ChrisR]

However, even a tackled player can get to his feet, provided he first releases the ball. If he's quick enough, he releases the ball, pops to his feet and picks up the ball.... I've seen it done, but its quite rare.

Less often than in days past for two reasons: Players arrive at the tackle very, very quickly and coaches demand that the tackled player sets the ball for a ruck as a first option. The latter is to the detriment of the game in my opinion.

 

[ChuckieB]

Less often than in days past for two reasons: Players arrive at the tackle very, very quickly and coaches demand that the tackled player sets the ball for a ruck as a first option. The latter is to the detriment of the game in my opinion.

I am not sure less often is right. With breakdowns perhaps not being contested to the extent that they once were there is greater opportunity perhaps for the tackled player to chance his arm and go again, often at risk of forgetting to release the ball first. That is going to be a skill in itself and something that might be coached.

 

[crossref]

I have seen occasions where a tackler releases very quickly , with the intention of getting back to feet and jackling, and the ball carrier then keeping hold of the ball and bouncing back to feet on the grounds he wasn't held

This can be tricky to ref as both players have a reasonable point

 

[Ian_Cook]

I have seen occasions where a tackler releases very quickly , with the intention of getting back to feet and jackling, and the ball carrier then keeping hold of the ball and bouncing back to feet on the grounds he wasn't held

This can be tricky to ref as both players have a reasonable point

I think that will happen less often now with the new laws requiring the tackler to go through the gate like everyone else.

 

[Pinky]

For me the thinking is about why the ball carrier is on the ground. If it is because he has been grabbed and brought to ground, then tackle made and he has to release/recycle the ball. If you start from this premise, you will probably ping a few folks that the current pro level seem to allow, but that is no bad thing imo.

 

[didds]

I have seen occasions where a tackler releases very quickly , with the intention of getting back to feet and jackling, and the ball carrier then keeping hold of the ball and bouncing back to feet on the grounds he wasn't held

This can be tricky to ref as both players have a reasonable point

Except the requirement is to be held, and brought to ground. Not the other way round.

PK against the ball carrier for not releasing here obviously.

Didds

 

[crossref]

Unless he was released just before he got to ground d? Ie he was knocked over
But likely yes you are right

I think Ian's point was a good one as well

 

[didds]

Presumably that is the BC's gamble wrt being knocked or held. He can make the call and see if the referee agrees with him

didds