Bm . .

PaulDG


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Perceptive article by BM. Worth a read..

I sort-of agree with it, but if Brian's idea is adopted, it could cause as many problems as it solves.

As he identifies, often the money to pay players comes from a benefactor - who could well just pay the players cash in hand (wasn't that the way it used to be done?).

Then the burden of proving no players are paid could shift to the clubs who might have to submit expensive paperwork and documentation to the RFU to prove they don't pay.

That could cause more clubs to fold than the current problems.
 

Adam


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Clearly just written this ages ago so he could have another week off.
 

Simon Thomas


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Nothing new in BM's article and it over-simplifies quite a lot what is a complex situation. Professional rugby itself, some paid players at all serious levels, generous benfactors or a switched on Club Committee who generate sponsorship from numerous sources, etc is just one cause of declining playing numbers, but I see a lot more contributing factors, both within the Game itself and many which are general changes in our national society, leisure habits, etc. I do not think one factor is the primary cause but the interaction of many different causes is to blame - Brian may be right that tighter regulations of financial commitments is one solution (but not as prescriptive as he suggests), but his solution creates a ring fenced elite and what right have the RFU to decide who is in or out, and their own management is hardly a role model !

Brian's last para demostrates his unfortunate lack of detailed knowledge in the area of clubs' financial reporting. All clubs in England have to submitt their annual audited accounts to their CB (of whom they are members), and then those accounts are sent on the RFU - that has been done for many years. All clubs who are Limited Liability Companies (as RFU policy advises them to be an increasing number) have to make annual returns to HMRC (for tax and VAT purposes).

At L5 I see perhaps the 'interface' between the semi-pro and amateur community rugby clubs. Some are riding high (Bournemouth with a 5 years plan, a large number of generous sponsors, and a non-paid player squad built over time; Chinnor similar but a few key paid players; Redigensians with more paid 'stars' and then declining clubs like Newbury relagated in three consecutive seasons and the fourth looking inevitable after they lost vodfone sponsorship, Bridwater £000,000s in debt after paying players who left as soon as the money ran out) and selling part of their car park for hosiuign developnment.

Each club is different and the forces at work are complicated and usually it is not quite as sinmpale as BM makes out, but these days he is right that anyone good enough will be playing National League levels already or on the Academy pathway. One big difference to even 10 years ago is that few players 'come back down' to their local club.

This topic is discussed every week at the L5 clubs I visit - pre-match with blazers, post match with blazers, coaches and players.
 
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OB..


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We have had strong reminders from our CB Treasurer that if we pay coaches, we must do it properly, because some clubs have been caught out paying him cash from the bar takings.
 

didds

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OB - what do they mean by "properly"? Clear and transparently through the accounts as a sole trader operating as a coach, or via PAYE? Most Level 7 clubs and below wouldn't pay enough I doubt to attract PAYE ?

Merely interested.

didds
 

OB..


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There are apparently clear distinctions between honoraria and payments. The latter attract National Insurance and Tax. I don't know the details, but the tax inspectors have pounced on some clubs.
 
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