Can we please shoot the PC Brigade?

[Na Madrai]

Last Wednesday, I had the distinct pleaseure of refereeing a college sevens' tournament for young gentlemen. There were three distinct levels, they had cute names but were basically elite, good and beginners and teams came from all over the UK.

Standing with another referee prior to KO, we were watching various teams warming up when he commented on two players who were wearing - dare I say it? - leggings and this on the hottest day of the year so far.

I have a vague idea that I may have read something on this subject on this site before now and I stated that they were not permitted and said something along the lines of '... kids in extreme weather and Muslim women for religious reasons only ...'

A woman seated to our left stood up and said 'How dare you differentiate on sex and religious grounds? If my players want to wear stockings, they will do so and you cannot stop them'. I responded that they were not allowed in the Laws but we will leave it to the organisers to sort out. We beat a hasty retreat and left her to it.

Thirty minutes later or so,during a break in refereeing, I was approached by two policemen. They had received an official complaint about sexual and religious discrimination by me and, since the complainant had stated that they were severely distressed at my comments, the police were duty bound to investigate the complaint.

I explained what I had said and the police informed me that I might be required to attend a police station and give a statement if the complainent decides to proceed with her complaint.

A telephone call this morning confirmed that there would be no further action.

What sort of a world are we living in?

NM

 

[Constantine]

Pics or it didn't happen.

 

[didds]

she's a muppet.

And I am in reality a bit of a tree hugger. So she MUST be a muppet.

One for the lawyers - could NM have been offended that she is offended about things on racial, sexist and ageist grounds, thus making his being offended a matter of racial, sexist and ageist offense, and reported HER to the police?

didds

 

[andyscott]

Last Wednesday, I had the distinct pleaseure of refereeing a college sevens' tournament for young gentlemen. There were three distinct levels, they had cute names but were basically elite, good and beginners and teams came from all over the UK.

Standing with another referee prior to KO, we were watching various teams warming up when he commented on two players who were wearing - dare I say it? - leggings and this on the hottest day of the year so far.

I have a vague idea that I may have read something on this subject on this site before now and I stated that they were not permitted and said something along the lines of '... kids in extreme weather and Muslim women for religious reasons only ...'

A woman seated to our left stood up and said 'How dare you differentiate on sex and religious grounds? If my players want to wear stockings, they will do so and you cannot stop them'. I responded that they were not allowed in the Laws but we will leave it to the organisers to sort out. We beat a hasty retreat and left her to it.

Thirty minutes later or so,during a break in refereeing, I was approached by two policemen. They had received an official complaint about sexual and religious discrimination by me and, since the complainant had stated that they were severely distressed at my comments, the police were duty bound to investigate the complaint.

I explained what I had said and the police informed me that I might be required to attend a police station and give a statement if the complainent decides to proceed with her complaint.

A telephone call this morning confirmed that there would be no further action.

What sort of a world are we living in?

NM

You cant wear them.

But ref

Look I have made it clear.

Kick off

Red Cards.

 

[andyscott]

Thirty minutes later or so,during a break in refereeing, I was approached by two policemen. They had received an official complaint about sexual and religious discrimination by me and, since the complainant had stated that they were severely distressed at my comments, the police were duty bound to investigate the complaint.

At that point I would have left. And told the police nothing.

 

[Toby Warren]

You cant wear them.

But ref

Look I have made it clear.

Kick off

Red Cards.

Red card for the women as well.

 

[didds]

Its not the police's fault. they are duty bound to act etc. The "advice" provided was not personal, just standard procedure I would imagine. the fact that this woman wasted everybody's time was amply demonstrated by the very quick followup from the police to say there was nothing further to act on.

failure to respond positively to police inquiries could I suspect have quite negative consequences at times. There would be nothing to be gained by ignoring the police's involvement, no matter how ridiculous the accusation made.

didds

 

[crossref]

NM

First you may have seen something on this site before but you obviosuly weren't paying attention, because you were actually wrong.
In fact ALL women are allowed to wear leggings. As per the Law Book

[LAWS]Female players allowed to wear tights
Current Law 4.2 to become 4.2(a)

Add new 4.2(b)

Female players may wear cotton blend long tights with single inside leg seam under their shorts and socks.[/LAWS]

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?highlight=tights&amendment=10

and she was right -- if her players wanted to wear leggings you couldn't stop them.
As a ref you should really know the Laws.

Also - there has never been any formal IRB or RFU regualtion or law that differentiates on religion, I am afraid you made that up. Which might reveal something about the lens through YOU see the world.

Second - I have a feeling that there is more to this story than you have let on - what exactly did you and your mate say that caused offence? You haven't really shared.

 

[Toby Warren]

At that point I would have left. And told the police nothing.

Pointing out to the police that you're administering the laws of the game as written would (and appears to have) ensure that this was NFA'd very swiftly.

 

[crossref]

Pointing out to the police that you're administering the laws of the game as written would (and appears to have) ensure that this was NFA'd very swiftly.

except that
1 - the Laws DO allow women to wear leggings!
2 - NM had incorrectly invented a critreria based on religion that isn't in the Law.

 

[Browner]

she's a muppet.

And I am in reality a bit of a tree hugger. So she MUST be a muppet.

One for the lawyers - could NM have been offended that she is offended about things on racial, sexist and ageist grounds, thus making his being offended a matter of racial, sexist and ageist offense, and reported HER to the police?

didds

I doubt it, such discriminatory matters invariably only seem to work one way. This is the current climate that needs to re-balance.

Intelligent fair minded people wouldnt have reacted like that woman did, a 'cancerous' approach IMO.

 

[Toby Warren]

except that
1 - the Laws DO allow women to wear leggings!
2 - NM had incorrectly invented a critreria based on religion that isn't in the Law.

But it was a male tournament - according to the OP's first line?

 

[The Fat]

NM

First you may have seen something on this site before but you obviosuly weren't paying attention, because you were actually wrong.
In fact ALL women are allowed to wear leggings. As per the Law Book

[LAWS]Female players allowed to wear tights
Current Law 4.2 to become 4.2(a)

Add new 4.2(b)

Female players may wear cotton blend long tights with single inside leg seam under their shorts and socks.[/LAWS]

http://www.irblaws.com/index.php?highlight=tights&amendment=10

and she was right -- if her players wanted to wear leggings you couldn't stop them.
As a ref you should really know the Laws.

Also - there has never been any formal IRB or RFU regualtion or law that differentiates on religion, I am afraid you made that up. Which might reveal something about the lens through YOU see the world.

Second - I have a feeling that there is more to this story than you have let on - what exactly did you and your mate say that caused offence? You haven't really shared.

Maybe you should read the OP again.
It was a tournament for young gentlemen.

So in relation to the last part of your post I have highlighted, What makes you think the OP is hiding something and not just that the woman involved was a nutter?

 

[crossref]

just a suspicion

 

[Toby Warren]

just a suspicion

A suspicion based on your misreading of the OP?

 

[crossref]

my suspicion is that this

I stated that they were not permitted and said something along the lines of '... kids in extreme weather and Muslim women for religious reasons only ...'

A woman seated to our left stood up and said 'How dare you differentiate on sex and religious grounds? If my players want to wear stockings, they will do so and you cannot stop them'. I responded that they were not allowed in the Laws but we will leave it to the organisers to sort out

is not a complete account of a conversation that prompted a phone call to the police.

And of course I misread that the players were all men. But nevertheless NM did get the Laws worng, and he introduced a religious element to issue that simply isn't in the Laws.

 

[andyscott]

So what we are saying is, the laws descriminate on grounds of sex?

I am offended by that.

 

[Browner]

The beauty of this site is that I learn something new every day.........

"Yes coach, your female players are permitted to wear tights and a headscarf ....... I need to see that the tights have a cotton blend and I need to check that the seam isnt on the outside of the leg, however the headscarf is always dangerous as it might loop around the players neck ,so its not permitted"

Good here innit!

 

[Toby Warren]

my suspicion is that this



is not a complete account of a conversation that prompted a phone call to the police.

And of course I misread that the players were all men. But nevertheless NM did get the Laws worng, and he introduced a religious element to issue that simply isn't in the Laws.

Cross ref was your suspicion based on the fact that the Coach was a women therefore the players would be girls?

If so I'm offended and am calling the police!

epper:

 

[crossref]

Toby.

1 My suspicion that NM is not fully disclosing the conversation is that his account of it is so brief and innocuous - but yet led to his interlocuter calling the police. I suspect that - in fact - more was said

2 the reason I assumed that the players they were discussing were female is that NM reports the dialogue as

If my players want to wear stockings, they will do so and you cannot stop them

players wearing 'stockings' just sounds like they were discussing female players, to my ears...