[Law] Charge down from kick from in goal & out side goal

[Christy]

Scene 1
Defender takes ball back into his own in goal .
Kicks ball from in goal & an attacking player who is in field of play ( just out side goal line )Charges ball down & ball goes dead over dead ball line .
How would you restart game ..

Scene 2 .
Defender kicks ball , just out side his own goal line ( in field of play )
An attacking player charges ball down & ball goes dead over dead ball line .
How would you restart game ..

 

[Bunniksider]

Both 22DO for me. Ball went in to in goal from an attacker and then went dead.

 

[ChrisR]

The only question would be in scenario 1: Did the ball cross the goal line into the field of play before it was charged down? The player charging down may have his feet in the FoP but strike the ball before it left goal. If that was the case it would be attacking 5m scrum.

 

[crossref]

While I agree that I would give a 22m DO in both cases .. please can someone provide a Law Reference to support that .. because I don't think the Law Book covers this

 

[Christy]

There is this from 2016 law book ..
Law 22 in goal

(e) If a defending team has put the ball into their own in-goal and a defending player kicks the
ball so that is charged down in in-goal and then made dead, the attacking side is awarded a
5-metre scrum in line with where the ball is made dead and they throw in the ball.

 

[crossref]

Christy
1) that's from 2016 Law Book - the book before the book before this one!!
2) the scenario is different from both your two scenarios in the OP !!

 

[Christy]

Yes , i kept a copy of same on file .( i thought i also had 2017 , but cant find it )
The scenario is also different .i know .
Hence why i posted original question ..

Its not covered in new book as a charge down out come . ( as it is in 2016 book & im sure 2017 book )
I totally agree that a 22DO is the answer to my original question .

Im surprised they havent mentioned this in new book .
As it is a law that directs to restart by scrum ( attacking team ).
Even though a defender took ball into their own in goal .

For new referees this season , i wonder how they would of dealt with the charge down , whilst in goal .
With no law reference to same ..

 

[Christy]

Just found my 2017 file .
It is as 2016 book .


(e) If a defending team has put the ball into their own in-goal and a defending player kicks the
ball so that is charged down in in-goal and then made dead, the attacking side is awarded a
5-metre scrum in line with where the ball is made dead and they throw in the ball.

 

[crossref]

Again , it doesn't cover the scenario in the OP

 

[Christy]

Again , it doesn't cover the scenario in the OP

I know it doesnt .
So here it is .

22.7 RESTARTING AFTER A TOUCH DOWN
(a) When an attacking player sends or carries the ball into the opponents’ in-goal and it
becomes dead there, either because a defender grounded it or because it went into touch-
in-goal or on or over the dead ball line, a drop-out is awarded.

I suppose my main queary is .
Why isnt any of this in new book .
I know its still the law ,,& im certainly not suggesting laws have changed ...

But there seems no reference to how game restarts in relation to an attacking player or deffender .
Touching ball down in , in goal .or if ball goes dead

The only reference they have relates to a 22DO , if an attacker kicks ball through opponents in goal.
Im just surprised so much has been left out

 

[didds]

Scene 1
Defender takes ball back into his own in goal .
Kicks ball from in goal & an attacking player who is in field of play ( just out side goal line )Charges ball down & ball goes dead over dead ball line .
How would you restart game ..

Ball ends up in-goal from attacker.

22 d/o

Scene 2 .
Defender kicks ball , just out side his own goal line ( in field of play )
An attacking player charges ball down & ball goes dead over dead ball line .
How would you restart game ..

Ball ends up in-goal from attacker.

22 d/o


Remember the DIDS -
"Defender In, Dead, Scrum"
Anything else is a 22 d/o.

didds

 

[crossref]

didds, Law reference for the scenario in the OP ?

 

[ChrisR]

In the what/where/who tables under Law 19 Scrum there is this entry:

[LAWS]The ball is taken into ingoal by the defending team and made dead.
[/LAWS]

and under Law 11 Knock-on or throw forward we have this:

[LAWS]5. The ball is not knocked-on, and play continues, if :
a. A player knocks the ball forward immediately after an opponent has kicked it (charge down).
[/LAWS]

Splice 'em together and you have your reference.

The 2018 Laws need a little work. Ya think?

Edit: this is my reference for my post #3.

For the OP the closest reference is under 22 Drop Out in the Law 12 Restarts section:

[LAWS]11. Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre
drop-out.

[/LAWS]

What is missing is how the ball is made dead.

 

[crossref]

The short answer is : there is no longer any Law that covers the scenario in the OP

As time goes on this will lead to problems, over the years on RR we have seen that there has always been confusion out there about the 5m scrum v 22m DO decision. Now that the Laws no longer cover all the possibilities, expect that confusion to grow over time

 

[TigerCraig]

The short answer is : there is no longer any Law that covers the scenario in the OP

As time goes on this will lead to problems, over the years on RR we have seen that there has always been confusion out there about the 5m scrum v 22m DO decision. Now that the Laws no longer cover all the possibilities, expect that confusion to grow over time

Isn't it Law 12.11?
Apart from at a kick-off or restart kick, if the ball is played or taken into in-goal by an attacking player and is made dead by an opponent, play is restarted with a 22-metre drop-out

 

[crossref]

No, 12.11 specifies the situation when the ball is "made dead by an opponent" (ie a defender )

 

[Camquin]

Kick through is treated separately in law 21.
But the case where an attacker put the ball into touch in goal or over the DBL is missing.

I must admit I hate the use of attacker and defender - especially as almost everyone in normal speech uses attacker to mean team in possession - for example if I am in my half I am a defender. If I kick the ball into my opponents In-goal and an opponent touches down, the law could be read that I get a scrum. Obviously I don't. That would be mad.

 

[crossref]

12.11 uses attacker in the sense of team moving the ball forwards

 

[crossref]

12.11 uses attacker in the sense of team moving the ball forwards .. ie different again

 

[Marc Wakeham]

12.11 uses attacker in the sense of team moving the ball forwards .. ie different again

Why do you infer that?