consistency

[The umpire]

just watched the highlights of Worcester v Exeter. How did that Exeter player get away with a "tackle" where his opponent is turned upside down and drops on his head.
Andy Goode being interviewed at the end asks for consistency of referreing, which in thia case is a fair enough request, isn't it?
What was Mr Richards thinking????
If I can find a link to the clip, I'll add it later.

 

[Leeedwards22]

It was a horrible "tackle". I dont think Mr Richards was thinking. There is only one colour card that should of been and that is a RC. Guess the citing commissioner well have something to say about it.

 

[dave_clark]

this being the same Andy Goode who wasn't banned for a flying shoulder which is more appropriate for the WWF than for rugby?

 

[The umpire]

true. But doesn.t make him wrong, or DR right.

 

[The umpire]

The highlights are now on http://www.itv.com/sport/rugby/
select Worc v Exe and it's at about 4:10 or atr about 45 sec on http://www.exeterchiefs.co.uk/

 

[Mat 04]

I do feel for the "tackler" in this instance. I'm not convinced he meant for the player to even leave the ground. Understandable YC imo, although would see nothing wrong with a RC either. Any news on a citing?

 

[Dixie]

I do feel for the "tackler" in this instance. I'm not convinced he meant for the player to even leave the ground. Understandable YC imo, although would see nothing wrong with a RC either. Any news on a citing?

At the mid-stage of the tackle, the tackler is standing at his full height, legs straight, with the tackled player over his shoulder. In 18 years playing the game, I never once found myself in that situation, and never once saw anyone else get themselves into it. If it was indeed accidental, I see absolutely no evidence for that in the video, and can't imagine how Dean Richards might have come to that conclusion in the immediacy of the tackle. This was a clear and obvious red card - why on Earth are elite referees continuing to bottle these calls?

 

[Davet]

Perhaps they could be fined by their Union - citing panel say red card, you had a clear view, £nnnn please.

Might concentrate minds.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Perhaps they could be fined by their Union - citing panel say red card, you had a clear view, £nnnn please.

Might concentrate minds.

Exit 90% of the volunteer referees - and at the highest levels remember only 5 or 6 Elite RFU referees at most are salaried !

 

[Dixie]

Perhaps they could be fined by their Union - citing panel say red card, you had a clear view, £nnnn please.

Might concentrate minds.

Exit 90% of the volunteer referees - and at the highest levels remember only 5 or 6 Elite RFU referees at most are salaried !

Agreed. Demotion to the Championship for a week with an explanation as to why would surely be effective. It MUST be the case that these guys don't really believe the powers that be truly want these offences punished.

 

[Davet]

OK fine idea was tongue in cheek - but if refs are not hurt in some way (10 lashes..?..:chair:?) then they have no incentive to make what they may well see as a "game ruining" call, and which they are very reluctant to make.

 

[Simon Thomas]

In 18 years playing the game, I never once found myself in that situation (as a wing threequarter I viewed tackling as optional)

corrected that for you Dixie :biggrin:

Regarding the tackle itself and eventually getting to see it on ITV highlights, I am amazed that it was anything but a RC. The Elite need to address the issue of consistency and apply the IRB guidelines to the letter.

 

[dave_clark]

unless the elite are concerned about ruining the game, and choosing to downgrade knowing the citing will follow.

 

[irishref]

At the mid-stage of the tackle, the tackler is standing at his full height, legs straight, with the tackled player over his shoulder. In 18 years playing the game, I never once found myself in that situation, and never once saw anyone else get themselves into it. If it was indeed accidental, I see absolutely no evidence for that in the video, and can't imagine how Dean Richards might have come to that conclusion in the immediacy of the tackle. This was a clear and obvious red card - why on Earth are elite referees continuing to bottle these calls?

Thumbs up Dixie. In my playing days I never found myself in that situation - expending extra energy in a tackle to lift and tilt someone? No, I - as a smallish guy - just went low to bring my opponent to ground and allow my backrow jackals to do their bit. I remember once tackling a small winger and he was actually jumping up & back in the contact - I found myself going up with him in my "embrace" so immediately just flopped to the ground with him.

I do believe that players are very aware of what they're doing - showboating but in a very very dangerous way. Much like the front row collapses that I only see at elite level - had 2 teams last weekend wearing skin-tight jerseys but somehow they managed to grip their opponents.

 

[Taff]

just watched the highlights of Worcester v Exeter. How did that Exeter player get away with a "tackle" where his opponent is turned upside down and drops on his head.

It doesn't look like he did "get away" with it. Just seen THIS on the BBC website.

 

[Blackberry]

The commentator mentioned something along the lines of "was it accidental" as the referee was approaching the offending player, but I reckon this is not an important point as the IRB make it clear that intention is not relevant. Have I got this right?

 

[OB..]

My understanding is that if you actually lift the player, that cannot be seen as accidental. However if you tackle a player low, drive through and thereby tip him over it is not a tip tackle.

 

[Simon Thomas]

OK fine idea was tongue in cheek - but if refs are not hurt in some way (10 lashes..?..:chair:?) then they have no incentive to make what they may well see as a "game ruining" call, and which they are very reluctant to make.

Dave - matches at this level are closely analysed and re-played on DVD, there is an RFU match analyser, a referee assessor, etc.

Plus from Group thru Panel to the Elite, referees are incredibly self-critical and self-analytical in my experience.

Any referee normally hates to make a mistake, and a development referee even more so, and an Elite referee just the same - they also have to develop a thick skin too, and so perhaps some referees seem not to care ?

 

[Davet]

Simon- yes I know how it works.

But i do think there is a tendency, in the glare of the spotlight and the intensity of the moment, when a ref has an instant to make a decision that some refs have a nagging thought at the back of their mind that they don't want to "ruin" the contest - and be slated by the press and media as a consequence, and -as human beings with all the complex frailty that may encompass, perhaps they know that their assessors and coaches who have all been there to some degree themselves will understand that at times one is a little unsighted, that one should look for "clear and obvious" offences, and while the error will be pointed out it may be forgiven rather more easily by people who really DO understand the pressures, than by the millions of folk who watch the TV or read the papers.

I would stress that this not an accusation, and is a very personal thought of what may - or may not - be a small factor. I offer it in the spirit of exploration not as a tested idea. Feel free to demolish it.

 

[Davet]

Note - I'm not suggesting that this is a conscious thought process.