Consult the captain?

[beckett50]

Interesting comment from my Match Development Official (Assessor) in last weekend's match.

I showed a YC to the Black #16 for a repeated team offence - it was their 7th penalty infringement of the match and the clock was at 27 minutes of the 1st half. I had previously spoken to the captain about the escalation of penalties; most of which had been played out by advantage.

When the offence occurred - player was offside at a ruck (inside his team's 22m) despite being told to retreat - there was no advantage to be played because he had scragged the #9.

How would you handle this scenario? Captain is playing at #10, and it was the #6 who was shown the card.

 

[Pinky]

From the description, what you did was fine. You had issued a warning and then escalated.

 

[didds]

Seems totally normal.

What are you possibly expecting as an alternative? OR rather, what did your assessor suggest as an alternative?

Purely secondary, #16 YCd 27 minutes into the match? A bit early for a bench player to be on "normally" - injury previously to another FR? Or was he on for a card already shown?

UPDATE: ah... just connected the thread title. Well I cold see the point of chatting with the captain also maybe - to reiterate what you'd already mentioned had happened! And I dunno whether you guys feel that a card resets the clock so to speak, but maybe to also say to the skipper that the previous chat was still in place ie too many PKs in the red zone in a short timeframe and the threat of more cards still looms.

didds

 

[SimonSmith]

I would have had the captain with me when I binned the player.

 

[crossref]

For a team warning , I reckon you do need to involve the captain in the YC (perhaps #6 was not aware of the team warning.. that would be the captain fault)

But Beckett, you would know that. I am at a loss to understand what the assessor picked you up for

 

[didds]

I am at a loss to understand what the assessor picked you up for

^^^^ this

didds

 

[Arabcheif]

What was your assessor's comment? The only thing I can maybe think was that if most of the offences didn't actually turn out to be penalties. He may have thought it was harsh to count these in your penalty count. He may feel that it's best to count infringements that have resulted in you blowing for awarding the penalty?? Don't know to be honest. I'm just guessing. Might be best to speak to him if you're under any doubt. As a new ref myself, I pretty much bombard my assessor with questions lol. I'm sure when he gets sent the invite through our whostheref system he thinks oh god not him again lol.

 

[Balones]

I don’t think I expect a referee to ‘consult’ a captain about a card. Rather that he is ‘told’ the reason. (If he asks that is. If the signal is clear enough then he should know.)

 

[beckett50]

For a team warning , I reckon you do need to involve the captain in the YC (perhaps #6 was not aware of the team warning.. that would be the captain fault)

But Beckett, you would know that. I am at a loss to understand what the assessor picked you up for

In essence the comment of the assessor was that I should have involved the Captain when the YC was shown - even though I had previously warned him (and it was not for a 'Foul Play' offence) - rather than just brandish the card and award the PK.

 

[crossref]

Well, I am sort of with the assessor.

For a YC I wouldnt necessarily call the captain over, only if I thought a explanation was appropriate.

For a team warning I would call the captain over because the player involved may well claim to have no idea about the team warning .. so nice to have the captain there (as it is the captain's fault if he didn't convey it, and on the other hand he won't pretend not to know if the capt told him perfectly well )

Of course you may have delivered the warning yourself to all the forwards ....

 

[L'irlandais]

I think the point is, you asked the captain to have a word earlier. Involving him in the sending off, is more for the benefit of the flanker, who may not have been made aware the next offense is Yellow, or might feign ignorance. Calling number 10 over, cuts out that possibility. I do agree with Balones, consult is probably not the mot juste.

 

[DocY]

Well, I am sort of with the assessor.

For a YC I wouldnt necessarily call the captain over, only if I thought a explanation was appropriate.

In the 27th minute, I think a chat with the captain is always going to be necessary. There's a lot of game left to manage!

 

[crossref]

In the 27th minute, I think a chat with the captain is always going to be necessary. There's a lot of game left to manage!

Unless , perhaps you just did the whole chat thing in the 25th minute and that hasn't worked ?

But as a rule, yes of course

 

[didds]

Would you guys not want to remind the captain that your warning still exists for further infractions? Or is there an unspoken agreement that the YC resets the clock (and if so - why?)

didds

 

[TheBFG]

Chat with Capt is the public bit, if he fails to pass the message on that's not your fault.

:yellow: "Blah no. 6, blah blah" see ya! no need for a chat with capt, especially at your level

 

[Marc Wakeham]

In essence the comment of the assessor was that I should have involved the Captain when the YC was shown - even though I had previously warned him (and it was not for a 'Foul Play' offence) - rather than just brandish the card and award the PK.

Well the use of the world "consult" is poor. You consult ARs / TMOs not captains about disciplinary matters. You TELL players.

So would I tell the captain why I'm issuing a card? Yes I would. I normally stop the game, call the player and captain over and issue the card. But I can envisige occasions when I may very the method.

 

[Zebra1922]

Regardless of a team warning or not, if I'm issuing a card I always involve the captain.

 

[crossref]

Regardless of a team warning or not, if I'm issuing a card I always involve the captain.

Really, always ?

 

[L'irlandais]

To be honest, it’s not a big deal is it? The out-half is probably standing 10 meters away.
“Captain, please.” “Black 16”; gives you time to select the correct colour, if nothing else. What’s the rush?

 

[crossref]

Interesting thread : dividing refs into two camps :
- those who think the captain should always be involved, and
- those who only involve the captain when there is a specific reason or need to.

I like a thread that brings out a different approaches, we can all think about this and question why we are in the camp we are