Crocodile Roll at Under 19

[Pegleg]

I think they are also aware of the difference between TV international rugby and the local park.
In part that accounts for the instructions they give (or don't give) to international referees.

So let's be transparent and publish the two sets of laws or the "Pro variations" so the paying public know what is going on.

 

[MiniRef]

The Crocodile Roll will be specifically banned but I fear it will only be as a response to a broken neck, or even worse.

 

[L'irlandais]

In Elite rugby a crocodile roll is appearantly something else.
(Perhaps jargon changes faster than we can keep up.)

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I think we are addressing what is known as a "gator roll", which has been copied in the USA from Highschool wrestling. In the archives you'll find several discussions on the subject.
Like this forum poll, which also calls it a saddle roll, or judo roll.

 

[Rich_NL]

Weird... I've never heard of that usage, and it's got nothing to do with crocodile rolls.

 

[L'irlandais]

Well it seems that a crocodile roll is when the ball carrier once tackled rolls over to present the ball to his own camp. Bernard Jackman coaches a Top 14 side, I don't think he is mistaken in his jargon. Notice to that the OP linked video clip refers to a mini rugby coaching technique, in which country is U19 called mini rugby?

The saddle roll which we would like to see World Rugby make illegal, is something entirely different, I agree.

Further example from the forum archives : saddle roll
To be honest it seem the misnomer "crocodile roll" only started last year, all discussions about this piece of "foul play" back in 2011 speak about "saddle roll". This has happened previously, where the red card offense of neck rolling a player out of a driving maul was confused with the legal tactic of the Irish choke tackle. One is foul play and the other a tactic to get around poorly written laws.

 

[DocY]

Well it seems that a crocodile roll is when the ball carrier once tackled rolls over to present the ball to his own camp.

Is there really a term for this? It's just the textbook "what do to when you've gone to ground", surely.

 

[crossref]

Well it seems that a crocodile roll is when the ball carrier once tackled rolls over to present the ball to his own camp. .

ah, a squirrel roll

 

[didds]

Is there really a term for this? It's just the textbook "what do to when you've gone to ground", surely.

If by text book you mean the tackled player isn't actually "immediately" exercising his permitted options, but instead "immediately" rolling around to disavantage the defending team and to buy time for his supporters to arrive - and gain a metre or so of ground, then yes, its some text book that must be oiut there that referees accept. Unless of course the player was tackled 0.9m from the line and rolled over it to score maybe? Which wopuld clearly be thoroughly different....

didds

 

[DocY]

If by text book you mean the tackled player isn't actually "immediately" exercising his permitted options, but instead "immediately" rolling around to disavantage the defending team and to buy time for his supporters to arrive - and gain a metre or so of ground, then yes, its some text book that must be oiut there that referees accept. Unless of course the player was tackled 0.9m from the line and rolled over it to score maybe? Which wopuld clearly be thoroughly different....

didds

Makes a bit more sense now. I was imagining the "you've fallen the wrong way, roll back to face your line before placing the ball" scenario. You're describing something a bit more cynical.

 

[crossref]

from time to time you do come across a team coached to do a lot of post-tackle rolling - for instance instead of rolling 90deg to face backwards, they will try and roll 270deg gain some ground as well...

 

[L'irlandais]

Bernard Jackman's "chop and barge" at the defensive ruck.
Different coaching staff, use different terminology. The general public are left scratching their heads.

 

[didds]

from time to time you do come across a team coached to do a lot of post-tackle rolling - for instance instead of rolling 90deg to face backwards, they will try and roll 270deg gain some ground as well...

That's it CR, that's what I meant. also gain time and displace hands etc.

didds

 

[crossref]

That's it CR, that's what I meant. also gain time and displace hands etc.

didds

early last season I came across a schools team who were using that tactic (post-tackle rolling) very enthusiastically, and in my view illegally.

It was quite an interesting thing for me to manage as the kids had clearly been coached to do this, but NOT - so far as I could tell - told that 'this is pretty borderline, do it if the ref lets you get away with it, reel it back in quickly if you are pinged'. They were coached to do it.

So they seemed genuinely nonplussed that I PK'd it ... and then in turn I was genuinely nonplussed when in spite of being PK'd they did it again.

The captain and I had to have a little chat

 

[DocY]

but NOT - so far as I could tell - told that 'this is pretty borderline, do it if the ref lets you get away with it, reel it back in quickly if you are pinged'.

Isn't this the norm at schools/youth level? At that age, I generally don't expect them to react to referees' interpretations (unless after a chat with the captain, and not necessarily then). They seem to have the attitude "coach has told us to do this, if the ref penalises it, the ref's wrong".

I was genuinely very surprised (in a good way) when reffing a youth team last season and they actually changed what they were doing without prompting. Couple of early penalties for offside close to rucks, I heard the captain shouting "that's the second time now, get back an extra couple of feet" and they hardly went offside for the rest of the game. And similarly with hands in the ruck.

Probably no coincidence that they won the league.