[6N] England v Ireland

Treadmore

Avid Rugby Lover
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
413
Post Likes
38
Dylan Hartley tackled just short of the line. No tackler releases him - all trying to stop him placing the ball. Arriving white players push him over the line.

TMO review and Roman Poite says "double movement". Baffling. Takes OB's Gambit one step too far for me.
 

RobLev

Rugby Expert
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
2,170
Post Likes
244
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Is it just me, or is Best striking before the put-in every Irish scrum?
 

Pegleg

Rugby Expert
Joined
Sep 3, 2014
Messages
3,330
Post Likes
536
Current Referee grade:
Level 3
Why would a hooker strike early when the ball is not going to go down the tunnel? Now if you said the Irish second row had their feet up, I'd understand.
 

RobLev

Rugby Expert
Joined
Oct 17, 2011
Messages
2,170
Post Likes
244
Current Referee grade:
Select Grade
Why would a hooker strike early when the ball is not going to go down the tunnel? Now if you said the Irish second row had their feet up, I'd understand.

There *was* an Irish foot there; the only question is whose it was.
 

Dixie


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
12,773
Post Likes
338
Dylan Hartley tackled just short of the line. No tackler releases him - all trying to stop him placing the ball. Arriving white players push him over the line.
That was a bit of an oddity. Just as well it wasn't a game changer - as it is, I suspect we can all move on.

I thought the comms were very poor all game. Very impressed when St Nige (or possibly his mate on the other side) picked up Sexton's knock on when tackling (Hartley?) - just a pity that they couldn't actually communicate the fact to RP. Did they ultimately have to flag it in? If so - clear breach of the protocol, but what else are they to do? I think at our level, with ARs but lacking comms, the ARs would let it slide if the ref didn't pick it up as we offered a discreet signal. Thoughts?
 

Rushforth


Referees in Holland
Joined
Jan 19, 2011
Messages
1,300
Post Likes
92
Thoughts?

Players and spectators want "the right decision". As a referee at a much lower level, all I care about is the safety and enjoyment of the players. "The right decision" remains a huge part of both safety and enjoyment, but in the absence of a team of three, players accept (my) mistakes (mostly).

At international level, the stakes aren't higher for the players, but they are for the officials (and coaches FWIW). The protocol is that the officials are wired up. But having been wired up occasionally, sometimes the signal isn't great.

When To3 becomes To4 with TMO, and if they are indeed reviewed on the their team performance, I'd rather see the right decision made after a stoppage. The referee being the only one to decide on whether to play advantage or not.
 

Treadmore

Avid Rugby Lover
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
413
Post Likes
38
That was a bit of an oddity. Just as well it wasn't a game changer - as it is, I suspect we can all move on.

I thought the comms were very poor all game. Very impressed when St Nige (or possibly his mate on the other side) picked up Sexton's knock on when tackling (Hartley?) - just a pity that they couldn't actually communicate the fact to RP. Did they ultimately have to flag it in? If so - clear breach of the protocol, but what else are they to do? I think at our level, with ARs but lacking comms, the ARs would let it slide if the ref didn't pick it up as we offered a discreet signal. Thoughts?
Second time Nigel has interjected in this 6N? Good on him - both times for the right result - though it does seem like the father figure guiding the errant child :)
 

Pinky


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,521
Post Likes
192
Dan Cole in from the side (again), but ref OK with unplayable, scrum 5 white.
 

Pinky


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,521
Post Likes
192
I was a bit surprised that RP did not seem to know where Ford should stand when playing s/h. All kinds of offside.
 

irishref


Referees in Holland
Joined
Oct 15, 2011
Messages
978
Post Likes
63
No game changer but England seemed to manage to prevent promising Irish ball a lot.

Our set pieces are several shades of shambles.
 

OB..


Referees in England
Staff member
Joined
Oct 7, 2004
Messages
22,981
Post Likes
1,838
That was a bit of an oddity. Just as well it wasn't a game changer - as it is, I suspect we can all move on.
As I saw it, Hartley held on after being tackled just short. If he hadn't, the ball might well not have got across the line. When replaying it later that evening I reckoned I could see him trying to use his knees to drive forward.

It certainly reinforces my dislike of the term "double movement"!

I thought the comms were very poor all game. Very impressed when St Nige (or possibly his mate on the other side) picked up Sexton's knock on when tackling (Hartley?) - just a pity that they couldn't actually communicate the fact to RP. Did they ultimately have to flag it in? If so - clear breach of the protocol, but what else are they to do? I think at our level, with ARs but lacking comms, the ARs would let it slide if the ref didn't pick it up as we offered a discreet signal. Thoughts?
When NO reported the knock-on, Poite said he was not getting clear communication so must have missed the call.

I felt NO's tone was a bit Adult-to-Child, rather than politely suggesting something. Good decision nonetheless.
 

Dixie


Referees in England
Joined
Oct 26, 2006
Messages
12,773
Post Likes
338
I was a bit surprised that RP did not seem to know where Ford should stand when playing s/h. All kinds of offside.
I'm not sure Ford was illegal, though he was much further back from the tunnel than is usual. He was generally on the same side as the put-in, and nearly as far back as the hindmost foot.

[LAWS]20.12 OFFSIDE AT THE SCRUM
(a) When the scrum is set, the scrum half not throwing the ball into the scrum must take up a position either at the same side of the scrum as the scrum half throwing in the ball or behind the offside line defined for other players.[/LAWS]
 

crossref


Referees in England
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
21,812
Post Likes
3,150
I felt NO's tone was a bit Adult-to-Child, rather than politely suggesting something. Good decision nonetheless.
I have often criticised NO here as being adult+to+child , and it's an opinion that not many share. Interested to see you picking this up as well
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,093
Post Likes
1,809
The Hartley non try...

I'll go with the "double movement" decision.

So why give a pk to Ireland for not releasing the ball, when the tackler never released why not reject the try and go back to the first offense at the tackle? Ievokbengland?

Or is it a case of the ref/to3/to4 ballsing up. It was c&o ?

Didds
 

Pinky


Referees in Scotland
Joined
Apr 9, 2010
Messages
1,521
Post Likes
192
I'm not sure Ford was illegal, though he was much further back from the tunnel than is usual. He was generally on the same side as the put-in, and nearly as far back as the hindmost foot.

[LAWS]20.12 OFFSIDE AT THE SCRUM
(a) When the scrum is set, the scrum half not throwing the ball into the scrum must take up a position either at the same side of the scrum as the scrum half throwing in the ball or behind the offside line defined for other players.[/LAWS]

At the Scrum 5 he was behind the scrum, but clearly in front of the goal line. He should not have been allowed to stand there.
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,093
Post Likes
1,809
I can only conclude that elite refs just don't care about scrum bindings. In a reset scrum green 3 never takes one legal bind in white 1, yet the officials wait for white 1 to drop an elbow to pk that. Its hardly not c&o.

Pathetically shit.

Didds
 

Treadmore

Avid Rugby Lover
Joined
Nov 11, 2008
Messages
413
Post Likes
38
As I saw it, Hartley held on after being tackled just short.
Did you not feel he was being prevented from placing the ball by the green tacklers not releasing? (Stil in FOP at this point.)
 

didds

Resident Club Coach
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
12,093
Post Likes
1,809
The green arms never once vaguely left Hartleys body.

Didds
 
Top