Simon Griffiths
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God, I sound bitchy in that post! 
Federation Exchange to the USA
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Simon Griffiths
Referees in England
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Not the chap (though I think I know who you mean).
Well, my last match is out of the way! My refereeing in Colorado is done (for now at least). I've got one more match (as number four for the Open Final).
I had a very interesting game. I didn't start well, and wasn't helped by the fact the one side was only interested in moaning and whinging. Had two touch judges who were helpful when required, but importantly supportive as necessary. Somehow, we managed to stop the match escalating into violence despite the obviously very fractious second half. So, my introuduction to US Division One rugby was interesting, challenging (not exactly fun ) and a good experience.
Lastly, a big well done to the Eastern Rockies Referees - excellent hosts, good fun (even though I was forced to wear a toilet seat round my neck whilst in the bars last night) and very interesting and helpful to boot!
Well, my last match is out of the way! My refereeing in Colorado is done (for now at least). I've got one more match (as number four for the Open Final).
I had a very interesting game. I didn't start well, and wasn't helped by the fact the one side was only interested in moaning and whinging. Had two touch judges who were helpful when required, but importantly supportive as necessary. Somehow, we managed to stop the match escalating into violence despite the obviously very fractious second half. So, my introuduction to US Division One rugby was interesting, challenging (not exactly fun
) and a good experience.Lastly, a big well done to the Eastern Rockies Referees - excellent hosts, good fun (even though I was forced to wear a toilet seat round my neck whilst in the bars last night) and very interesting and helpful to boot!
ExHookah
Argentina Referees in Argentina
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Not the chap (though I think I know who you mean).
Well, my last match is out of the way! My refereeing in Colorado is done (for now at least). I've got one more match (as number four for the Open Final).
I had a very interesting game. I didn't start well, and wasn't helped by the fact the one side was only interested in moaning and whinging. Had two touch judges who were helpful when required, but importantly supportive as necessary. Somehow, we managed to stop the match escalating into violence despite the obviously very fractious second half. So, my introuduction to US Division One rugby was interesting, challenging (not exactly fun
Lastly, a big well done to the Eastern Rockies Referees - excellent hosts, good fun (even though I was forced to wear a toilet seat round my neck whilst in the bars last night) and very interesting and helpful to boot!
Excellent news, glad to hear that you have enjoyed it.
Also, while the US Eagles may struggle to succeed on the Test arena, it is certainly true that US Div 1 rugby is a challenge, as Brian R learned when he was over here on exchange. As it has been explained to me the athleticism and competitiveness is sometimes of a level that you see high up in the UK leagues, but frequently it's the mental side of things that lowers the comparative level compared to good UK rugby.
Just completed an eleven try sprintathon this afternoon between two University teams, after an equally fast 9 try match on Friday night. Anyone that says that Americans will never accept rugby has not met the lads that I've been seeing in action this past weekend.
Simon Griffiths
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Apparantly I didn't do that badly. I felt that it was my fault (as you often do when a match gets horrible), but the news through from those watching was that I actually did very well, and they were quite suprised that I managed to keep a lid on a potentially explosive second half.
There was one incident though that could have been handled much better. After a late hit I stayed with the two players, as it was a very potential flash point, and allowed my AR to follow play (following eye contact). Black scored a try. As they did I blew the whistle and sent the players aside and spoke to the AR (who had also flagged the late hit). We spoke, agreed that it should be a YC (definitely necessary at that point). I let the try stand (as I believed it had been scored when I blew the whistle). The problem being that I communicated this very poorly - including not even giving an arm signal, in addition to poor verbal communication of this.
It was a critical incident you could say, but my AR and I thought that I got the timings correct - however the situation was communicated and managed quite poorly in my opinion (and of one assessor who happened to be watching his team at the time).
So, more positives to take from the match than I thought originally. The negative being that I managed the situation poorly because, although I remained calm throughout, I was going at the speed of the match - rather than trying to slow it down. So, calm, but not necessarily entirely collected...
There was one incident though that could have been handled much better. After a late hit I stayed with the two players, as it was a very potential flash point, and allowed my AR to follow play (following eye contact). Black scored a try. As they did I blew the whistle and sent the players aside and spoke to the AR (who had also flagged the late hit). We spoke, agreed that it should be a YC (definitely necessary at that point). I let the try stand (as I believed it had been scored when I blew the whistle). The problem being that I communicated this very poorly - including not even giving an arm signal, in addition to poor verbal communication of this.
It was a critical incident you could say, but my AR and I thought that I got the timings correct - however the situation was communicated and managed quite poorly in my opinion (and of one assessor who happened to be watching his team at the time).
So, more positives to take from the match than I thought originally. The negative being that I managed the situation poorly because, although I remained calm throughout, I was going at the speed of the match - rather than trying to slow it down. So, calm, but not necessarily entirely collected...
Dickie E
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yes, i think this is the best course of action. Perhaps to be agreed pre-match.
Dixie
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Along with a loud call of "Line-o, keep on eye on this. Guys, no cards, please!
Simon Griffiths
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ex-lucy - no real advisor present, so I just chatted with my ARses and then discussed it the next day with a couple of others.
I was quite happy staying with the players as the incident was only 10m from the try-line and the try was going to be near the touch line too (even if it is traditional to let the AR stay with it - something though that I can now emphasise in pre-match brief).
However, what I needed to do afterwards, when talking to both captains and issuing the YC, was clearly state that the try had been scored (I think I mentioned it as a passing comment in the actual match). Then walk to the line, awarded the try with a separate whistle and arm signal (whilst briskly walking away from it and the team whom I'd just carded a player from).
I was quite happy staying with the players as the incident was only 10m from the try-line and the try was going to be near the touch line too (even if it is traditional to let the AR stay with it - something though that I can now emphasise in pre-match brief).
However, what I needed to do afterwards, when talking to both captains and issuing the YC, was clearly state that the try had been scored (I think I mentioned it as a passing comment in the actual match). Then walk to the line, awarded the try with a separate whistle and arm signal (whilst briskly walking away from it and the team whom I'd just carded a player from).
Perhaps the try should have been awarded before you carded the player?
If you had stayed with the ball, and left the incident to the AR, you could award the try, then chat to the ARses, and card, and if necessary, overturn the Try decision.
Not saying it's any better than what you did - just suggesting a different option.
If you had stayed with the ball, and left the incident to the AR, you could award the try, then chat to the ARses, and card, and if necessary, overturn the Try decision.
Not saying it's any better than what you did - just suggesting a different option.
Dickie E
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I probably would have:
1. followed the ball & observed the try,
2. blown time off,
3. confered with ARs, and then
4. awarded try, penalty, cards, etc.
I think the key bit here (besides following play) is the order of awarding the Try v cards etc.
Personally my course of events (having thought it through a bit more) would be:
1) follow play and AWARD TRY, and Time OFF
2) Speak to ARses & come to decision
3) Call captains over, and players involved
4) Explain outcome to Captains
5) YC players (I would do this while doing 4 above)
6) Time ON,
7) Re-award Try - if this is decision (confirms previous award), & conversion kick
8) Signal PKs - all of them if PK overturned etc - if the try has not been awarded. (crucial to give them all, as if the PK ends up in the attacking teams favour, the crowd and players need to know why you didn't allow the advantage you obviously played earlier)
And I would slow it all down - especially if the game is getting heated. The talk with the Arses is perfect for this. I would initially ask for their views etc, then come to a decision, ask if they agree, then have a general chat about the game. Take a minute or two. Let the players calm down, and collect your thoughts, and think through what you are going to do next. If one of the ARses is a much higher standard than me (or someone who I respected & trusted), I might then when saying my decision say - "I'm going to call the captains and player X over, explain that the Try stands, and that player X is being temporarily suspended for XYZ. I will then Award the try, and allow the conversion. Have I missed anything?" He might add something - general warnings for foul play, etc. Measn I use the AR to develop my management of the situation.
Personally my course of events (having thought it through a bit more) would be:
1) follow play and AWARD TRY, and Time OFF
2) Speak to ARses & come to decision
3) Call captains over, and players involved
4) Explain outcome to Captains
5) YC players (I would do this while doing 4 above)
6) Time ON,
7) Re-award Try - if this is decision (confirms previous award), & conversion kick
8) Signal PKs - all of them if PK overturned etc - if the try has not been awarded. (crucial to give them all, as if the PK ends up in the attacking teams favour, the crowd and players need to know why you didn't allow the advantage you obviously played earlier)
And I would slow it all down - especially if the game is getting heated. The talk with the Arses is perfect for this. I would initially ask for their views etc, then come to a decision, ask if they agree, then have a general chat about the game. Take a minute or two. Let the players calm down, and collect your thoughts, and think through what you are going to do next. If one of the ARses is a much higher standard than me (or someone who I respected & trusted), I might then when saying my decision say - "I'm going to call the captains and player X over, explain that the Try stands, and that player X is being temporarily suspended for XYZ. I will then Award the try, and allow the conversion. Have I missed anything?" He might add something - general warnings for foul play, etc. Measn I use the AR to develop my management of the situation.
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Dixie
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I don't get to work with AR's, so come to this from a very inexperienced viewpoint. But FlipFlop, might it not be better to whistle TIME OFF instead of awarding the try at item 1, so you don't then have to overturn your previous decision if the PK is to be awarded instead?
The Law allows you to change you decision after consulting ARses.
If you don't have ARses, then You will already have made up your mind - follow ball, award try, time off, YC, etc. But in the scenario given - there were ARses.
By awarding the try you are clearly indicating the result of the play - not held up, not touch in goal, not a knock on etc. Then you are dealing with the flag in by the TJ. I would argue it is our version of "Tell me why I can't award the Try". But happy to accept delaying the try award until after the discussion with the ARses - it's just not how I would do it.
If you don't have ARses, then You will already have made up your mind - follow ball, award try, time off, YC, etc. But in the scenario given - there were ARses.
By awarding the try you are clearly indicating the result of the play - not held up, not touch in goal, not a knock on etc. Then you are dealing with the flag in by the TJ. I would argue it is our version of "Tell me why I can't award the Try". But happy to accept delaying the try award until after the discussion with the ARses - it's just not how I would do it.
Simon Griffiths
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ex-lucy - I did something very similar at the tournament in Wyoming. I awarded a try, AR had his flag in - discuss what happened, send off player, reverse try and award PK.
