First Red Card Today

[crossref]

you can do what you like as a referee if yoiu have a problem to solve, and I am not going to worry about the fine letter of the Laws as and when you have to deal with the Coach on the pitch. If (and it is a big if, as other courses of action may be better) in management terms the best solution is to show a coach a red card as an effective communication, I would fully support any of our referees who did so.

But as far as the Disciplinary Committee are concerned they need to get a Referee Abuse form NOT a dismissal form.

you all assume it's a referee abuse problem. what if a coach came on the field and abused a player, or thumped someone.
Indeed in Taff's case he doesn't mention abuse, he says the coach was 'inciting the players'

 

[Simon Thomas]

crossref - he in violation of every Ethic, Ethos, Code of Conduct, etc as well as Law 6.

His choice - he leaves quietly and maye gets a b*llocking, apologises afterwards, and all sorted.

or he goes off on one, and he gets all you want to give him. As a Society Committee I would be looking for referee abuse or if no evidence for that for that he can face a Regualtion 5.12

However it pans out he is going to get one or other book thrown at him, especially if he continues in clubhouse.

 

[crossref]

yes, but i meant the form.

Imagine
red #11 performs a dangerous tackle
blue coach comes on field and thumps red#11, who thumps him back, they scuffle

no one abuses the ref in the slightest.

I would feel inclined to issue a RC to both of them, and use the RC form for them both.

 

[winchesterref]

Is there a misconduct form?

 

[TheBFG]

I had an incident a couple of seasons back where a "TJ" came on to the pitch and punched a player 4 times. I told his capt that he had to leave the field and that i didn't want to see himn anywhere near the pitch. I told the captains that I wasn't sure if i could issue a RC, but i was certainly treating it that way and would report it as so.

I completed a Sending Off report and it was dealt with as such (he got 10 weeks, 4 for the punches and 6 for entering the playing enclosure)

I was later told that i could have shown a RC, but that it is just there to let everyone else what is going on.

 

[Simon Thomas]

yes, but i meant the form.

Imagine
red #11 performs a dangerous tackle
blue coach comes on field and thumps red#11, who thumps him back, they scuffle

no one abuses the ref in the slightest.

I would feel inclined to issue a RC to both of them, and use the RC form for them both.

In our CB we would do a Dismissal Form to Socierty, who then would re-present it as a misconduct / 5.12 letter.

Same result - coach gets a major ban and club a serious warning. :biggrin:

 

[Toby Warren]

Blimey we tie ourselves in knots at times.

Get the coach away from the pitch by red card, word from the skipper or magic carpet.

After the game ring your friendly contact at your Society to tell them what happened, they'll guide you through the admin.

 

[leaguerefaus]

How'd the crowd react to the coach getting a red?

 

[Blackberry]

The crowd were very supportive. I had shaken my head and sighed and said in a sad but firm voice "I have never given a red card in ten years of reffing but you have given me no choice". It was a National Colts Game. This took less than 10 seconds. The coach appeared surprised but I brooked no dissent, and simply asked his fellow coaches to expedite matters which they did. The game, which didn't have a yellow card at anytime in it, settled back down well. Before the game I had gently chided the coach for swearing at one of his players in the warm up, but was surprised at his action.

 

[Taff]

I had an incident a couple of seasons back where a "TJ" came on to the pitch and punched a player 4 times. .... I completed a Sending Off report and it was dealt with as such (he got 10 weeks, 4 for the punches and 6 for entering the playing enclosure) I was later told that i could have shown a RC, but that it is just there to let everyone else what is going on.

Was the "TJ" also a sub ie a team member?

Anyone else find it odd that he gets a 6 week ban for entering the playing enclosure, yet only gets 4 weeks for smacking an opponent 4 times?

 

[Browner]

Was the "TJ" also a sub ie a team member?

Anyone else find it odd that he gets a 6 week ban for entering the playing enclosure, yet only gets 4 weeks for smacking an opponent 4 times?

It's either daft, or maybe he used the Horwill defence, "I was only shadow boxing on my own & I didnt know the player was there !"

 

[menace]

you all assume it's a referee abuse problem. what if a coach came on the field and abused a player, or thumped someone.

Saw something similar in local comp here. 2 opposing players on the ground in a scuffle/handybags but nothing serious and AR was managing them but team doctor/first aider didn't like his team losing this fight too and came in and roughly pushed the opposing player off. From ARs report, Referee YC players and relieved the medic of his duties and ordered away from the field, and he was cited to the judiciary through a letter ( no form).

 

[Blackberry]

In education with child protection we are told about the jigsaw concept, you might see a small piece of possible evidence which seems hardly worth passing on, but in fact it adds to an already building picture which you have no idea about. It might have been the same in this case, other refs have told me he has been awful in previous weeks, so there was an air of relief that he has been brought to account.

A lot of the wiser heads on this forum often chide fellow posters for inaction, saying you are causing problems for the ref next week, so it is good to remember this when you are wavering about making a big call.... we are part of a bigger picture and have mutual responsibility for the game's welfare.

On a less obvious tack, I think the other coaches were not at all unhappy, I am guessing here, but I wonder if they were concerned as well, they were certainly of a very different ilk. When I handed them my refs grading card I was expecting to unleash the four horses of the apocalypse, but to be fair (there are four grades for the seven areas, poor, satisfactory, good and excellent) they gave me four excellents and three goods. I don't know whether to send it in to the society or keep it and frame it.

 

[Daftmedic]

What has been described is like school ground bullying. Most people have seen teachers and other students not face up to them and it continues.
There is a line that everyone has. I applaud you for having the courage and the commitment to remove the bloke.

 

[Browner]

we are part of a bigger picture and have mutual responsibility for the game's welfare. Agree, anyone else want to borrow Browner's Drum to bang?

they gave me four excellents and three goods. I don't know whether to send it in to the society or keep it and frame it.

Or maybe they fear your next visit, "Don't make me angry-you won't like me when I'm Angry"

:biggrin:

 

[crossref]

In education with child protection we are told about the jigsaw concept, you might see a small piece of possible evidence which seems hardly worth passing on, but in fact it adds to an already building picture which you have no idea about. It might have been the same in this case, other refs have told me he has been awful in previous weeks, so there was an air of relief that he has been brought to account.

A lot of the wiser heads on this forum often chide fellow posters for inaction, saying you are causing problems for the ref next week, so it is good to remember this when you are wavering about making a big call.... we are part of a bigger picture and have mutual responsibility for the game's welfare.

On a less obvious tack, I think the other coaches were not at all unhappy, I am guessing here, but I wonder if they were concerned as well, they were certainly of a very different ilk. When I handed them my refs grading card I was expecting to unleash the four horses of the apocalypse, but to be fair (there are four grades for the seven areas, poor, satisfactory, good and excellent) they gave me four excellents and three goods. I don't know whether to send it in to the society or keep it and frame it.

less than a handful of times have I had to confront and deal with a coach or parent -- but on each occasion , subsequently, other people came up to me and thanked me for dealing with a serial offender..

 

[menace]

A lot of the wiser heads on this forum often chide fellow posters for inaction, saying you are causing problems for the ref next week, so it is good to remember this when you are wavering about making a big call.... we are part of a bigger picture and have mutual responsibility for the game's welfare.

Such wise words that is too often dismissed by referees as they perceive it as just a ' one off' by the offender and they let it slide. Don't. Ever. No matter how minor. We had an incident here for this past season where a junior team coach intimidated and abused a young female referee and denied her her liberties to feel safe to leave the situation. He was given only 10 weeks and many who knew this was a serial offender week in and week out for crossing the line with referees and other team coaches were appalled at the light sentence. But it turns out it was only his FIRST visit to the judiciary as referees were not reporting him. Had he been to the judiciary before the sentence would have been much much higher.

 

[Account Deleted]

We have a duty to protect each other. Report such offences every time. whether the "correct" system was used is secondary. Get him off and worry about protocol later.

Perhaps we all should go back to our societies and check how we should deal should this happen to us in the future (card or Code of Conduct CoC). I would guess it's a CoC issue. It would be churlish for the DC committee to act differently just because the "wrong" form / method was used.

 

[Blackberry]

I believe, but cannot prove, that if we, as a game, clamp down on coaches' behaviour, we will not drive the currently unreasonable ones out of the game, instead better still they will adapt their behaviour. After all ,we all normalise to the given or the accepted. If we, starting with the refs, change the given and the accepted, others will change too. It could well be that we will not be losing loud aggressive but talented coaches to the game, instead we will get them to successfully adapt to a new set of behaviours. They after all are only operating in the environment that has been created.

 

[Blackberry]

10 years and no red cards?? What have you missed???

At least I don't get invited to the staff parties at the RFU Disciplinary Dept.