Forum Behaviour

[crossref]

I think it's about time the problem of ill-tempered, ill mannered, discourteous postings that plague the forum was properly addressed

I see two ways this can be done

1 - A call to action to the moderators.

The mods could sort this out, and I call on them to bring to the forum the same techniques that they use to manage a rugby game. I'd like to see
- a short 'PMB' - a statement setting out the conduct that must be observed (be polite, be respectful. That's probably enough, TBH)
- then sanction people not observing. I'd recommend the mods use ATP, and YC. These techniques are very effective on the pitch, and we all understand them. I reckon they'd work here.
- the mods are going to have to work out for themselves how to deal with misconduct by one of their own... I am sure they can do that.

2 - community feedback

If mods don't want to / can't take on this task, we may be able to manage it as a group.
My proposal is for everyone to actively use the 'dislike' button, to signal that we dislike the tone of a post (regardless of whether you agree with the argument being expressed). that might work.

We could do both

(and .... if anyone thinks any of my posts have been part of the problem -- please feel to go back to the specific post and click dislike. Or just do so going forward - I would notice)

 

[illinois rugger]

i think you limeys have a saying. pot meet kettle

 

[Paule23]

i think you limeys have a saying. pot meet kettle

Isn't this just the sort of thing Crossref is talking about? And the very 1st reply?

I think self policing is the way to go, we soon find what is generally acceptable and call out this that are not. If it turns out the level is in the wrong place for some of us we take our business elsewhere.

See above for a dislike btw

 

[crossref]

i think you limeys have a saying. pot meet kettle

Hi Illinois
So you have been a member of the forum for eight years , and that's the first time you have ever replied to, liked or disliked any of my posts ..

 

[Dickie E]

Hi Illinois
So you have been a member of the forum for eight years , and that's the first time you have ever replied to, liked or disliked any of my posts ..

what I find baffling is one regular contributor thanked Illinois for his post and another liked it. :shrug:

 

[crossref]

I rather suspect that Illinois rugger is a sock puppet (nine posts in eight years, last posted nearly two years ago, and yet was online to read and respond to my post inside an hour).'
(and "limey" makes me smile, has any real American used that word since about 1955 ?)
Obviously I don't know who it is, but I have a theory. mods perhaps you can see the IP address of posters ? Does Illinois rigger use the same computer as any regular poster ? What's the policy on sock puppets ?

 

[Blackberry]

i think you limeys have a saying. pot meet kettle

Great start.

 

[damo]

Ignoring the sock/troll is a better strategy than investigating him.

FWIW, I follow this forum avidly and though I don't post that much anymore I think the level of discourse is generally OK. Others might disagree, and that's fine.

 

[Pegleg]

Or simply ignore those you have a problem with. Take a look at yourelf and ask would you accept a post in that tone etc. If you can deal with it fair enough. Just because your are told your talking nonsense should not really be a problem if you are thick enough skinned to referee.

I'm guessing our American friend was referring to the OP. there is some merit in the comment. This is not a playground we are gown ups.

I can't recall anything that anyone with a pair should be prissy about.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I rather suspect that Illinois rugger is a sock puppet (nine posts in eight years, last posted nearly two years ago, and yet was online to read and respond to my post inside an hour).'
(and "limey" makes me smile, has any real American used that word since about 1955 ?)
Obviously I don't know who it is, but I have a theory. mods perhaps you can see the IP address of posters ? Does Illinois rigger use the same computer as any regular poster ? What's the policy on sock puppets ?

Yes, I know who you think it is Crossref (yes, you are that transparent) but you are wrong, I would not bother wasting my time.

The reality is, he is probably a lurker. This forum has plenty of lurkers (over 60 members have logged in the last 24 hours... how many have posted). Just on the first page of the member list I found a user who joined in 2010, has two posts, and last logged in 15 hours ago. Another joined 2013, has 5 posts and last logged in 14 hours ago. Not everyone posts on forums they are members of.

Looking up the IP number is easy, you can even get an approximate Google Earth location for the provider (not so easy to find the actual location of the user though). Finding out what type of computer they are using is not possible in this version of vBulletin - I'm not sure that Robbie could even find that out, and it wouldn't prove much anyway. If I bother to look it up, I certainly will not be publishing it outside of the staff forum. That would be a breach privacy and therefore against forum rules.

Hopefully, illinois rigger will post again and elaborate.

 

[crossref]

Ignoring the sock/troll is a better strategy than investigating him.
.

but on the other hand investigating is fun !

illinois rugger joined in 2009, in the middle of a spat between Ian Cook and Brian Moore
needless to say, iilinois rugger was on Ian's side.
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...no-crooked-feeds&p=79459&highlight=#post79459
and Ian liked what Illinois had to say
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...no-crooked-feeds&p=79465&viewfull=1#post79465
and Illinois came to Ian's support later in the year on the same topic
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...on-crooked-feeds&p=98398&highlight=#post98398

So I'll ask the question : Ian -- are you and illinois by any chance the same person ?

 

[Swiss Ref]

Actually I don't think its about being prissy or possessing cojones.
Its just encouraging debate to solve problems, questions and being literally a resource forum where new refs and old feel comfortable to ask questions

Or simply ignore those you have a problem with. Take a look at yourelf and ask would you accept a post in that tone etc. If you can deal with it fair enough. Just because your are told your talking nonsense should not really be a problem if you are thick enough skinned to referee.

I'm guessing our American friend was referring to the OP. there is some merit in the comment. This is not a playground we are gown ups.

I can't recall anything that anyone with a pair should be prissy about.

 

[damo]

but on the other hand investigating is fun !

illinois rugger joined in 2009, in the middle of a spat between Ian Cook and Brian Moore
needless to say, iilinois rugger was on Ian's side.
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...no-crooked-feeds&p=79459&highlight=#post79459
and Ian liked what Illinois had to say
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...no-crooked-feeds&p=79465&viewfull=1#post79465
and Illinois came to Ian's support later in the year on the same topic
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...on-crooked-feeds&p=98398&highlight=#post98398

So I'll ask the question : Ian -- are you and illinois by any chance the same person ?

Is that all you've got? A couple of posts in which Ian and this Illinois character happen to disagree with Moore about how important it is to put the ball into the scrum correctly?

TBH, Moore is very easy to disagree with.

 

[Ian_Cook]

but on the other hand investigating is fun !

illinois rugger joined in 2009, in the middle of a spat between Ian Cook and Brian Moore
needless to say, iilinois rugger was on Ian's side.
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...no-crooked-feeds&p=79459&highlight=#post79459
and Ian liked what Illinois had to say
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...no-crooked-feeds&p=79465&viewfull=1#post79465
and Illinois came to Ian's support later in the year on the same topic
http://www.rugbyrefs.com/showthread...on-crooked-feeds&p=98398&highlight=#post98398

So I'll ask the question : Ian -- are you and illinois by any chance the same person ?

No we're not. I have no need to hide behind a persona to tell you exactly what I think of you

I have posted in the Staff forum on this issue. Someone else can deal with it now.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Actually I don't think its about being prissy or possessing cojones.
Its just encouraging debate to solve problems, questions and being literally a resource forum where new refs and old feel comfortable to ask questions

More importantly there are certain forum members who take great delight in nitpicking when an experienced forum member and referee answers a question from a new referee, and it turns into shit fight over minutia. I find this particularly annoying. While the more experienced member has given good advice that might be lacking detail, the fact is that detail is NOT what is important when dealing with a new referee... BASICS are what are important, the details can be dealt with later.

I can link you to a recent example of this if you like (but rather do it via PM as I don't want the shit fight starting again).

 

[Ian_Cook]

Is that all you've got? A couple of posts in which Ian and this Illinois character happen to disagree with Moore about how important it is to put the ball into the scrum correctly?

TBH, Moore is very easy to disagree with.

About half the rugby communty disagrees with BCM, so that puts illinois rugger and I same 50% of rugby fans on the planet!

Wow, so conclusive!

 

[Phil E]

I think it's about time the problem of ill-tempered, ill mannered, discourteous postings that plague the forum was properly addressed

More importantly there are certain forum members who take great delight in nitpicking when an experienced forum member and referee answers a question from a new referee, and it turns into shit fight over minutia. I find this particularly annoying. While the more experienced member has given good advice that might be lacking detail, the fact is that detail is NOT what is important when dealing with a new referee... BASICS are what are important, the details can be dealt with later.

For me the latter is far more detrimental to this forum than the former (which happens less often).
It has led to more experienced referees leaving, or only posting very occasionally; thus the forum and its members lose out on their advice.

 

[Christy]

hi all
interesting conversation .
the way i have handled same when a member decided to take what i felt was a deliberate personnel attack about my persona .
in what real was just a pointless provocative post which had no materiality to question i had posted
was to no longer read that posters posts .

even when same have replied to further posts i have put up .
as soon as i see offenders name , i simply scroll past same & totally ignore their post .

i have been ignoring poster for i would say over a year .

i think this is a great forum
and have learnt a lot from same , general banter i feel is healthy .
look forward to staying active

 

[Wedgie]

One person's lurker is another's observer....

 

[Accylad]

For me the latter is far more detrimental to this forum than the former (which happens less often).
It has led to more experienced referees leaving, or only posting very occasionally; thus the forum and its members lose out on their advice.

I used to use the site quite often and while I have always been a rare poster I have largely given up on it as both a refereeing resource and an enjoyable place to read posts (or lurk if you prefer)... It is too rare to find a question posed and answered reasonably simply. Now I know TLOtG are not always straightforward but for an inexperienced referee some of the threads must be even more confusing than I find them!

I would not presume to think I know it all, I make my share of on field gaffs, and I take a look occasionally as I have now to see if there is anything going on of interest and to see if I can learn anything.

too often I find that the posts drift off into great detail that become turgid and I loose interest as a "hard core" have fun debating. My lack of intellectual rigour maybe....

Having said that I do hope it continues because at its best it can be very good if you are able pick the wheat you need from what you find is chaff.