has to be seen to be believed....
- Thread starter ex-lucy
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Adam
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Oh no, gutted to hear that. On what grounds?
dave_clark
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mate, sorry to hear that.
did they give you any reason why they decided you were no longer welcome?
edit - why not offer your services to friendly local clubs (there *must* be some in hertfordshire
) on sunday mornings?
ex-lucy
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basically ... Hertford RFC got their wish .. their spectators screamed 'enjoy your retirement' at me during the game ... and a meeting with some society exec had its own agenda without me knowing ... it was a discplicnary meeting which i didnt know ... a few lies later (from the society people in the meeting) ... and i am terminated.
bitterly, i say, a big club in the county wanted x and with some political negotation got x.
i am very bitter about rugby and referee societies just now.
antiquated.
very political
non meritocracy
exec consisting of people not in touch with modern rugby and its challenges
abuse is on the rise ... but exec say 'deal with it' .. its your management style .. i disagree
help us !! please !!
sorry /rant off
bitterly, i say, a big club in the county wanted x and with some political negotation got x.
i am very bitter about rugby and referee societies just now.
antiquated.
very political
non meritocracy
exec consisting of people not in touch with modern rugby and its challenges
abuse is on the rise ... but exec say 'deal with it' .. its your management style .. i disagree
help us !! please !!
sorry /rant off
I don't believe it!
(Well, I do, but it sounds ridiculous.)
Join another society. It worked for Steve Walsh.
I also know of other referees at lower levels who have successfully switched societies for personal reasons.
I can only remember one referee getting thrown out. He nutted a spectator who came on to the pitch to argue with him. He (the referee) jumped before he was pushed.
(Well, I do, but it sounds ridiculous.)
Join another society. It worked for Steve Walsh.
I also know of other referees at lower levels who have successfully switched societies for personal reasons.
I can only remember one referee getting thrown out. He nutted a spectator who came on to the pitch to argue with him. He (the referee) jumped before he was pushed.
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I echo OB.. statement.
I am sorry to hear that ex lucy. Sounds like a stitch up to me.
All I can say is we have dispensed with the services of several referees in London, not in the manner of ex lucys I must say.
If several clubs have made similar complaints which they have in the past we manage it like HR do....... short term measures and goals. They are assessed closely by senior assessors or referees over several games and areas for improvement are suggested. If no improvement over several games then we ask them to leave, demote or do not appoint. Some people are not suited to refereeing but we do give them the opportunity to improve, its not a clear cut exercise. Sometimes they are just too dangerous to carry on or do not take the feedback given. We have a duty of care.
All I can say is we have dispensed with the services of several referees in London, not in the manner of ex lucys I must say.
If several clubs have made similar complaints which they have in the past we manage it like HR do....... short term measures and goals. They are assessed closely by senior assessors or referees over several games and areas for improvement are suggested. If no improvement over several games then we ask them to leave, demote or do not appoint. Some people are not suited to refereeing but we do give them the opportunity to improve, its not a clear cut exercise. Sometimes they are just too dangerous to carry on or do not take the feedback given. We have a duty of care.
Lee Lifeson-Peart
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A very sad day!:sad:
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Sorry to hear the news ex-Lucy. As you know, I can't comment much further about your personal sitution.
In my time as Chairman of Hampshire we have had three referees whose membership has not been renewed, due to bringing the Society into disrepute but none of them related to match management, law knowledge etc which we deal with in a similar way to London.
The reasons were medical & behavioural, direct & very serious public referee abuse to a fellow Society Referee whilst playing, and selling on International Tickets on e-bay at a profit.
In my time as Chairman of Hampshire we have had three referees whose membership has not been renewed, due to bringing the Society into disrepute but none of them related to match management, law knowledge etc which we deal with in a similar way to London.
The reasons were medical & behavioural, direct & very serious public referee abuse to a fellow Society Referee whilst playing, and selling on International Tickets on e-bay at a profit.
Ex-Lucy.
Very sad to hear it.
I have read your posts with interest over the years, and whilst I occasionally got the impression that your style was perhaps a little firm, even robust, I don't see that as a massive issue. In many ways keeping a firm grip on the game is what it's all about. If you are out of step with the norms for the level you are at then I would expect the society to work with you, and others, to get consistency across their refs.
Very sad to hear it.
I have read your posts with interest over the years, and whilst I occasionally got the impression that your style was perhaps a little firm, even robust, I don't see that as a massive issue. In many ways keeping a firm grip on the game is what it's all about. If you are out of step with the norms for the level you are at then I would expect the society to work with you, and others, to get consistency across their refs.
Toby Warren
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Just seen this, to be clear Herts have dismissed you following one complaint and a process that you didn't know was a discip. hearing?
Have I understood that correctly?
Someone else can answer this but who do Societies 'report' to in the RFU structure? Because that sounds wrong wrong wrong.
I too will miss your posts - your posts have been good I recall the 'I could ref the world cup final' thread with a smile on my face!
All the best I hope that you find a solution that you are happy with
Have I understood that correctly?
Someone else can answer this but who do Societies 'report' to in the RFU structure? Because that sounds wrong wrong wrong.
I too will miss your posts - your posts have been good I recall the 'I could ref the world cup final' thread with a smile on my face!
All the best I hope that you find a solution that you are happy with
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Toby - a very good question indeed.
Due to historical and legacy reasons Societies have been mostly autonomous, or part of the County Union. More recently many Societies have set up written constitutions and operating pronciples with an annual operating plan.
That would have the formal complaints procedure outlined.
Societies tend to have a catch-all clause in their constitution (similar to RFU's 5.12 bringing game into disrepute), of bringing the Society into disrepute.
In many cases Societies still are invitation to join oranisations, it is not open membership, you have to be nominated / recommended and you are not 'dismissed' but your membership is withdrawn, not renewed etc. Very much a historical legacy of 1920s/30s but also makes the Committee less accountable and avoids any employment appeal type discussions.
Since the mid 1990s and setting up of RFU Refs Department there are 'dotted line' reports from Societies to
a) Governance - RFU Council through County CB or Refs own CB (RFRU)
b) Structure, referee development, performance, recruitment & retention - RFU Refs Department through Regional Referee Development Managers, who in return support Societies with organisational and training materials.
c) Referee Development - Federations, Groups and National Panel / Refs Dept
d) Discipline - County CB & RFU
Do remember that we are all vounteers, except the paid full & part time RFU staff, so the RFU is not a push down demand management structure but more of a supportive resource.
Due to historical and legacy reasons Societies have been mostly autonomous, or part of the County Union. More recently many Societies have set up written constitutions and operating pronciples with an annual operating plan.
That would have the formal complaints procedure outlined.
Societies tend to have a catch-all clause in their constitution (similar to RFU's 5.12 bringing game into disrepute), of bringing the Society into disrepute.
In many cases Societies still are invitation to join oranisations, it is not open membership, you have to be nominated / recommended and you are not 'dismissed' but your membership is withdrawn, not renewed etc. Very much a historical legacy of 1920s/30s but also makes the Committee less accountable and avoids any employment appeal type discussions.
Since the mid 1990s and setting up of RFU Refs Department there are 'dotted line' reports from Societies to
a) Governance - RFU Council through County CB or Refs own CB (RFRU)
b) Structure, referee development, performance, recruitment & retention - RFU Refs Department through Regional Referee Development Managers, who in return support Societies with organisational and training materials.
c) Referee Development - Federations, Groups and National Panel / Refs Dept
d) Discipline - County CB & RFU
Do remember that we are all vounteers, except the paid full & part time RFU staff, so the RFU is not a push down demand management structure but more of a supportive resource.