[Law] Head scratcher

[ChrisR]

Can anyone tell me why:

On an attempt at a conversion kick

[LAWS]8.12. If the ball falls over and rolls away from the line through the place where the try was
awarded and the kicker then kicks the ball over the crossbar, the conversion is successful.


8.13. If the ball falls over and rolls into touch after the kicker begins the approach to kick, the
kick is disallowed.
[/LAWS]

So, the kicker attempts a difficult conversion close to touch on a windy day. As he starts forward the ball is blown off the tee and

a. rolls away from the tee but in the field of play. The kicker continues with his successful kick and the conversion is awarded.

b. rolls away from the tee into touch. The kicker continues, puts the ball over the bar and between the posts only to have the conversion disallowed because the ball had rolled into touch.

Is there some logic in this that I'm clearly not grasping?

 

[Dickie E]

I guess Law 18. Once ball is in touch, it is dead and can't be played until certain restart options have occurred.

[LAWS]The field of play has side boundaries known as touchlines. When play reaches a touchline, the ball is in touch and becomes dead.[/LAWS]

 

[didds]

I guess Law 18. Once ball is in touch, it is dead and can't be played until certain restart options have occurred.

[LAWS]The field of play has side boundaries known as touchlines. When play reaches a touchline, the ball is in touch and becomes dead.[/LAWS]

a decent stab. That raises other questions... for starters at a conversion the ball isn't live - you can't collect a failed kick for example and score a try with it (Ive seen that confusion arise in a game !) - there are only two valid, legitimate actions at a conversion - a kick, and a defending chase to block the kick.

So the ball isn't live when it rolls into touch. And even if it were a PK (divertig slightly) the ball still isn;t live as it only becomes live once the kick is actually made.

didds

 

[Dickie E]

if the ball is dead at a conversion then, when it rolls into touch, it is dead and buried.

 

[crossref]

It's a shame that the 2018 Authors didn't strike out 8.13 as well as making no real logical sense it's such an edge case anyway.

 

[Dan_A]

Once the the kicker "begins the approach to kick" the ball is kind of live, as that's when the defending team can start their run towards the kicker??

 

[didds]

Good point Dan. We sort of have another zombie scenario!

Its justa very limited version of "live" though of course. Given the ball rolling into touch doesn't subsequently provide a lineout for anybody its still a rather odd law that really doesn;t seem to follow any logic.. ??

didds

 

[MiniRef]

If the ball (right next to touchline) falls, stays in field, kicker has started his approach, so he (continues his approach and) walks to it and picks it up (to attempt drop goal), but kicker is in touch when picking up the ball, then what happens?!?!?

 

[Marc Wakeham]

The ball would be in touch.

 

[ChrisR]

I see 8.13 as a pointless complication with a questionable foundation in law and no benefit to the game. Don't need it, dump it.

 

[Donk93953]

I see 8.13 as a pointless complication with a questionable foundation in law and no benefit to the game. Don't need it, dump it.

Agreed!

 

[Taff]

I see 8.13 as a pointless complication with a questionable foundation in law and no benefit to the game. Don't need it, dump it.

Exactly. Would anyone honestly miss it?

 

[SimonSmith]

How many of us have seen this happen?

Anyone?.....Anyone....?

 

[OB..]

This bit of law appeared between 1959 and 1974, so I have no background info. I agree it seems odd.

 

[MrQeu]

Try near the touchline. Kicker has a foot in touch when the other foot contacts the ball. The kick goes over the bar. Will anyone on their right mind disallow the kick?

Somehow, like this one:

 

[Taff]

Try near the touchline. Kicker has a foot in touch when the other foot contacts the ball. The kick goes over the bar. Will anyone on their right mind disallow the kick? Somehow, like this one:

A player in touch can still kick or slap a ball that hasn't crossed the vertical plane of touch. What the player can't do is hold the ball.

I suppose with a ball that close to the touch line, it could fall off the tee and roll into touch, but I must admit if that happened to me, I'm pretty sure I would let him place the ball back on the tee as long as he hadn't started his run up.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

It's a shame that the 2018 Authors didn't strike out 8.13 as well as making no real logical sense it's such an edge case anyway.

That would have constituted a law change. In no way, shape, or form did the 2018 contain any law changes. :sarc:

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

There must have been a need for such a law at one point, but it certainly seems obsolete.

How many of us have seen this happen?

Anyone?.....Anyone....?

No, never. My first season we used a Gilbert leather ball with laces. There were no kicking tees, just use of the heel. The likelihood of such a rollover to touch was more possibly. Making such a kick from next to touch line was also an unlikelihood.

This bit of law appeared between 1959 and 1974, so I have no background info. I agree it seems odd.

This bit of law really does seem to have outlived its purpose. Perhaps it was to encourage centering scores and increase importance of successful conversions to decide games with scores of 3 to 3 or 6 to 6 during the 3 pt try era. To my recollection, scores were not a frequent.

Nowadays this bit is just trivia for fans that may have read the law.

 

[OB..]

A thought occurs to me: at one time the opposition could charge a conversion as soon as the ball touched the ground. That meant the scrumhalf would hold the ball off the ground, with one finger on top and one underneath, taking the bottom finger away at the last minute.

With such an arrangement, the ball was very unlikely to roll into touch. I suspect it was a "Good Idea" by somebody when they changed the charging law (which was between 1959 and 1974).

 

[didds]

A player in touch can still kick or slap a ball that hasn't crossed the vertical plane of touch. What the player can't do is hold the ball.

I suppose with a ball that close to the touch line, it could fall off the tee and roll into touch, but I must admit if that happened to me, I'm pretty sure I would let him place the ball back on the tee as long as he hadn't started his run up.

.. and if (s)he had? pick the ball and DK it?

didds