[Line out] Help with this law ?

[rugbyslave]

 

[rugbyslave]

Sorry just added the images, how can we have 2 different sanctions ????

 

[thepercy]

18.6 is for a player from either side playing the ball before it has gone 5 meters, sanction FK.

18.23.B is for when the throw does not go 5 meters before touching the ground, sanction LO/scrum option.

Has anyone ever seen a LO throw hit the ground before reaching 5 meters?

 

[crossref]

18.6 is for a player from either side playing the ball before it has gone 5 meters, sanction FK.

18.23.B is for when the throw does not go 5 meters before touching the ground, sanction LO/scrum option.

not really, as they both cover the scenario of the ball being played, and yet the sanction is different

8.6 The ball must reach the five-metre line before it is played and a player must not prevent the ball from travelling five metres
8.23 The ball must reach the five-metre line before it hits the ground or is played.

This has been a murky bit of Law for a long time -- it's a missed opportunity that the 2018 book didn't clarify it

 

[OB..]

18.6 applies to a QTI
18.23.b applies to a formed lineout

 

[crossref]

18.6 applies to a QTI
18.23.b applies to a formed lineout

Same offence , though, but different sanctions

 

[ChrisR]

The laws that match up are :

[LAWS]4. At a quick throw, the ball is thrown in:


c. So that it reaches the five-metre line before it touches the ground or hits a player

Sanction: Option of lineout or scrum.
[/LAWS]

and

[LAWS]23. The ball must:


b. Reach the five metre line before it hits the ground or is played.


Sanction: Option of lineout or scrum. If the lineout is chosen and the ball is again not thrown
straight, a scrum is awarded to the team that originally threw in the ball.
[/LAWS]

In these two cases the law addresses the player throwing in. Law 8.6 applies to other players, not the thrower.

 

[crossref]

I don't think they quite answer this

Red throw, and red player catches it 4m out , what do you give ?

 

[Christy]

I don't think they quite answer this

Red throw, and red player catches it 4m out , what do you give ?

Player reaches over & catches ball 4 meters = scrum opposition .
Player steps into channel to catch same ball = free kick opposition .

 

[didds]

And between the 22s in particular the outcome is potentially the same!

 

[crossref]

Player reaches over & catches ball 4 meters = scrum opposition .
Player steps into channel to catch same ball = free kick opposition .

That's the sort of clear direction that they could have put into the 2018 Law Book .. if they had done it properly

 

[Dickie E]

It's about intent. A player deliberately prevents ball going 5 = FK. A player accidentally prevents ball going 5 = scrum.

 

[crossref]

It's about intent. A player deliberately prevents ball going 5 = FK. A player accidentally prevents ball going 5 = scrum.

Talk me through how this can happen accidentally?

 

[Taff]

Sorry just added the images, how can we have 2 different sanctions ????

Because there may be a couple of reasons why the ball didn't travel 5m.

1. If a player in either of the 2 lines runs forward before the ball reaches the 5m line - it's a FK offence.
2. If the thrower mucks it up - then there are options.

 

[crossref]

This is great . .lots of different interpretations of the Law .. all of them sensible .. no one can be sure what's correct ... This was a golden opportunity missed by the 2018 Law Book

 

[leaguerefaus]

This is great . .lots of different interpretations of the Law .. all of them sensible .. no one can be sure what's correct ... This was a golden opportunity missed by the 2018 Law Book

Even if they did clarify it in the 2018 law book, you would find some referees would treat that as just another interpretation, equally as valid as the 2017 law book.

Am I flogging a dead horse? Likely.
Am I going to stop? Unlikely.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Because there may be a couple of reasons why the ball didn't travel 5m.

1. If a player in either of the 2 lines runs forward before the ball reaches the 5m line - it's a FK offence.
2. If the thrower mucks it up - then there are options.

That can't be the answer because these are laws in relation to different aspects of Touch: The QTI and the line out.

Quick Throw

6. The ball must reach the five-metre line before it is played and a player must not prevent
the ball from travelling five metres.

Sanction: Free-kick.

We also have the following law relation to a QTI
4.
b. Parallel to or towards the thrower’s own goal line;
and
c. So that it reaches the five-metre line before it touches the ground or hits a player;
and

Sanction: Option of lineout or scrum.

6 seems to refer to the actions of "Other players" at a QTI where as 4 seems to refer to the thrower in.

Whereas:

Throwing into a line out
23. The ball must:
a. Be thrown in straight along the mark of touch; and
b. Reach the five-metre line before it hits the ground or is played.

Sanction: Option of lineout or scrum. If the lineout is chosen and the ball is again not thrown straight, a scrum is awarded to the team that originally threw in the ball.

Here the actions of both the thrower (a) and the "other players" (b) have the same sanction.

For both the ball must travel the required distance (thrower-in's issue) and must not be played before it reaches the required distance. (other players' issue).

So why treat a QTI and a full line out differently in repect of the actions of "other players"?

With a QTI the ball need not be straight (it can go backward as long as it crosses the 5m line). Why? Not material I hear some say. BUT surely the same would apply to QTI caught before it gets to the 5? No? Also rarely would a QTI be intercepted by the opposition before reaching the 5.

I like to ask the question "what is a law try to achieve?" it helps interprets it at times. That is not helping here.

 

[didds]

Player reaches over & catches ball 4 meters = scrum opposition .
Player steps into channel to catch same ball = free kick opposition .

I really don't see the differenc tbh!

 

[OB..]

Same offence , though, but different sanctions

Different circumstances, therefore different tactical situations.

 

[ChrisR]

I think we're making this harder than it needs to be. Ignore the actual wording for a minute for both QTI and lineout and consider this:

Throwing team mucks it up. Ie. ball thrown short or teammate of thrower prevents ball going 5m. Sanction: Turnover with choice of scrum or lineout.

Opponent stops ball going 5m. Sanction FK.