Henshaw on May

[irishref]

Didds - the law reference is 15.D and May dives onto the ball which is still on the ground - Cooney hasn't yet lifted it.

May is standing at the side of the ruck, he wasn't a tackler and his angle to dive on the ball is one that is totally unimpeded by bodies that are forming the ruck. Clearly offside in my book.

Why the ref didn't penalise that is beyond me, much like the non-decision for the subsequent challenge on May.

 

[didds]

Didds - the law reference is 15.D and May dives onto the ball which is still on the ground - Cooney hasn't yet lifted it.

well Id have to agree to doisagree.

The ball is clearly off the floor when May's hand toches it. It is out of the ruck.



That's is not to say that he may well have been offside in order to acheive this of course - as I note above.

I certainly agree that the To4 didnt have a very good game in rtetrospect (without wnating to appear to slate them!)

didds

 

[Flish]

Working backwards (as a biased Englishman);

- Late and no arms on May - Yes, PT? Not convinced
- Knocked on by May as tries to steal from Cooney - I think so
- Diving on ball leaves the ruck - not for me
- Offside by May - Yes in my game, probably not for the standard the To4 were setting.

 

[didds]

Working backwards (as a biased Englishman);
- Knocked on by May as tries to steal from Cooney - I think so

that's afir enough call... I did consider that also biut for me its not C&O that it was anytjing worse than down if not even marginally (as in 2mm!) backwards.

didds

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

I just heard Jim Hamilton on the Rugby Pod say "Slapping the ball from the 9's hands has always been illegal!". Is that true ?
Forget the offside for a moment; if the 9 has lifted it, and an opponent slaps the ball from his hands, is that illegal ?
Do you penalise that under "diving on a ball as it leaves a ruck" offence ?

 

[crossref]

I just heard Jim Hamilton on the Rugby Pod say "Slapping the ball from the 9's hands has always been illegal!". Is that true ?
Forget the offside for a moment; if the 9 has lifted it, and an opponent slaps the ball from his hands, is that illegal ?
Do you penalise that under "diving on a ball as it leaves a ruck" offence ?

It would normally go forwards so would be a deliberate knock on

 

[didds]

I'd be uncomfortable assuming most slaps go forward . I'd suggest a good many actually go straight down or are not C&O forward (like May's)

but ive no evidence to back that up of course. Not that I suspect there is evidence to show they do go forward.

didds

 

[crossref]

I'd be uncomfortable assuming most slaps go forward . I'd suggest a good many actually go straight down or are not C&O forward (like May's)

but ive no evidence to back that up of course. Not that I suspect there is evidence to show they do go forward.

didds

I think with a slap of the ball in the 9s hands ... From an onside position .. I would be reversing the normal rule and saying that unless it was clearly and obviously backwards, then I am calling it as forward. And deliberate.

 

[didds]

Then Id have to respectfully strongly disagree.



didds

 

[Rich_NL]

It's more that someone in the ruck can't impede the 9. Technically the ball is lifted, ruck over... but it gets messy if that's then a free-for-all. Players onside can come and tackle/strip the 9 if he dithers, though.

 

[didds]

Ironically maybe given other threards, this all happened because Ireland didnt post a pillar or form a snake...

Rich_NL is spot on of course. Whether May was or was not offside is open to conjecture (another total lack of interaction with T04 whoich was interesting) but certainly the very small ruck footrint and the lacl of Ire protection for the ball/9 meant he had the maximum opportunity to _possibly_ get a hand in the way. [ more a coaching point than a laws point of course ]

didds

 

[Pinky]

I just heard Jim Hamilton on the Rugby Pod say "Slapping the ball from the 9's hands has always been illegal!". Is that true ?
Forget the offside for a moment; if the 9 has lifted it, and an opponent slaps the ball from his hands, is that illegal ?
Do you penalise that under "diving on a ball as it leaves a ruck" offence ?

Good to hear that Jim has been listening to his coaches. As a general rule a slap from the 9's hands has to be by someone in the ruck, if not yet off the ground then that is handling in the ruck, or often off their feet, and often forward as well to KO and definitely a deliberate action. Most players are coached to leave it alone if you are in the ruck. On side players can challenge the 9, but I for one try and make sure they are really onside (clear space behind back foot) before the ball is out.

 

[Elpablo73]

Good to hear that Jim has been listening to his coaches. As a general rule a slap from the 9's hands has to be by someone in the ruck, if not yet off the ground then that is handling in the ruck, or often off their feet, and often forward as well to KO and definitely a deliberate action. Most players are coached to leave it alone if you are in the ruck. On side players can challenge the 9, but I for one try and make sure they are really onside (clear space behind back foot) before the ball is out.

Pinky a word of warning about having clear space behind the offside line; you will find some assessors who will mark you down for controlling the space incorrectly (by requiring more than the law states).

 

[Pinky]

Pinky a word of warning about having clear space behind the offside line; you will find some assessors who will mark you down for controlling the space incorrectly (by requiring more than the law states).

If I expected a 1m space, i would agree, but making it clear you expect players to actually be behind the back foot and not with their feet level with the back foot, you get a better game. I would also advocate for a law change to get more space, but that is another matter.

 

[Marc Wakeham]

Pinky a word of warning about having clear space behind the offside line; you will find some assessors who will mark you down for controlling the space incorrectly (by requiring more than the law states).

Ref is closer to the action than the advisor. "Guys make sure you are not just back behind your offside line but make sure you look like you are to me!"