How the urban Myth's get spread!!

[SimonSmith]

The Law:

14.1 PLAYERS ON THE GROUND
(a) A player with the ball must immediately do one of three things:
• Get up with the ball
• Pass the ball
• Release the ball.
Sanction: Penalty kick
(b) A player who passes or releases the ball must also get up or move away from it at once.
Sanction: Penalty kick
(c) A player without the ball must not lie on, over, or near the ball to prevent opponents getting possession of it.
Sanction: Penalty kick
(d) A player on the ground must not tackle or attempt to tackle an opponent.
Sanction: Penalty kick
14.2 PLAYERS ON THEIR FEET
(a) Falling over the player on the ground with the ball. A player must not intentionally fall on or over a player with the ball who is lying on the ground.
Sanction: Penalty kick
(b) Falling over players lying on the ground near the ball. A player must not intentionally fall on or over players lying on the ground with the ball between them or near them.
Sanction: Penalty kick

Nowhere does it say that the player on his feet MUST let the player get up as his first action. It is an option, not a right.

 

[PaulDG]

I interpret it this way
The player on his feet can instantly contest for the ball as long as the player on the ground has had the "more instantly" chance to play the ball. ...

Any thoughts?

Yes, why does the player on the ground get any chance at all?

He's on the ground. He must release, play or pass, "more instantly" as you put it.

The arriving player (providing he doesn't dive onto the player on the ground) is the one with the rights - he should, as he's on his feet, be able to pick the ball up.

So the player on the ground's options shrink to precisely one when a player on his feet arrives - he must release the ball instantly.

The only right the player on the ground has is "not to get jumped on". Other than that, he only has obligations.

 

[The Fat]

Yes, why does the player on the ground get any chance at all?

He's on the ground. He must release, play or pass, "more instantly" as you put it.

The arriving player (providing he doesn't dive onto the player on the ground) is the one with the rights - he should, as he's on his feet, be able to pick the ball up.

So the player on the ground's options shrink to precisely one when a player on his feet arrives - he must release the ball instantly.

The only right the player on the ground has is "not to get jumped on". Other than that, he only has obligations.

good summary

 

[MiniRef]

You are wrong, you do not have to let him up, if he goes to ground and you place an hand on the player then he can not get up with the ball as he is deemed held.

Am I missing something? If I place a hand on a player who is on the ground then I'm preventing his getting up and/or I'm going off my feet (reference many discussions on bridging) and so I'm liable to be penalised. I haven't "held" him (in the tackle sense) as (notwithstanding other scenarios) he hasn't been tackled. So I can try to grab the ball but surely I can't legally place a hand on him?

 

[Davet]

look at it another way if the player who goes to ground plays completely to the laws then
- he goes to ground
- you arrive on the scene
- he releases the ball
- and now you've got to let him up....

NO YOU DON'T!!!

 

[Dixie]

Am I missing something? If I place a hand on a player who is on the ground then I'm preventing his getting up and/or I'm going off my feet (reference many discussions on bridging) and so I'm liable to be penalised.

If you remained in the same position and took your hand away, would you fall over? If yes, you are bridging and liable to penalty. If no, you are still on your feet. It appears to be legal to drag the player into touch - hard to do if you can't touch him.

 

[Zulu_Bravo]

Zulu bravo) At the elite game i know refereeing is done somewhat different to what the book says.

I attended a training course with uncle bob several months ago and he made it very clear where the law book came in terms of referees' priorities at the lower levels of the game (hint - it wasn't at the top!)

Stop obsessing about what the law book says / doesn't say. It's safety, enjoyment (or equity), and laws ... in that order!

 

[jeff]

ZULU BRAVO,
I thinK you've lost the plot)

 

[Zulu_Bravo]

Me? Never!

 

[PaulDG]

...

Stop obsessing about what the law book says / doesn't say. It's safety, enjoyment (or equity), and laws ... in that order!

Obsessing, yes, agreed. We all know that being confident in your decisions is the most important thing and that actually being correct is a bonus.

But you do have to get the vast majority of your Law right. Once a significant number of the players know you know less of the Law than they do, your "management" job will get a lot, lot harder..

 

[Zulu_Bravo]

Paul DG - there's nothing there I disagree with!

 

[Rit Hinners]

look at it another way if the player who goes to ground plays completely to the laws then
- he goes to ground
- you arrive on the scene
- he releases the ball
- and now you've got to let him up....

NO YOU DON'T!!!

Since he has already released the ball, do tell, why do you not have to allow him to get up?

 

[goose]

if the defender has released the ball and you keep hold of him, arent you committing an obstruction offense? he wants up and you wont let him, nither of you have control of the ball and arent really in a ruck...PK?????

 

[Ian_Cook]

I interpret it this way
The player on his feet can instantly contest for the ball as long as the already released player on the ground has had the "more instantly" chance to play the ball.

Fixed that for you!

 

[Davet]

Since he has already released the ball, do tell, why do you not have to allow him to get up?

Because there is no requirement in law that you should do so.

 

[FlipFlop]

Because there is no requirement in law that you should do so.

But how are you stopping them? There may well be legal ways to do it (as it isn't strictly outlawed), but I can't think of one at the moment.

You may not push/hold etc. an opponent without the ball in open play. I would also say that preventing an opponent without the ball from re-gaining their feet (and rugby is a game to be played by people on their feet) would be against the spirit of the law, as you are deliberately preventing someone re-joining the game.

Of course if he still has the ball, you can prevent them from getting up by pushing them, and you can contest the ball and they have to release to you.

 

[Davet]

Just stand over them and take the ball away.

Why overcomplicate?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Just stand over them and take the ball away.

Why overcomplicate?

:clap:

Some people are misunderstanding the meaning of "let" when spectators scream "He's got to let him up". The spectators are inferring that the arriving player must WAIT until the prone player gets to his feet.

This is clearly wrong, and the Law does not say that.

What the Law states is that you must not do anything that will actively prevent the player from releasing the ball or getting to his feet.

LAW 14 Definitions
....
A player who makes the ball unplayable, or who obstructs the opposing team by falling down, is negating the purpose and Spirit of the Game and must be penalised.
...

So you can't fall on, lie on, kneel on or sit on the player, or hold him down. You may grab the ball and try to take it off him, and he must release immediately.

 

[OB..]

What the Law states is that you must not do anything that will actively prevent the player from releasing the ball or getting to his feet.

LAW 14 Definitions
....
A player who makes the ball unplayable, or who obstructs the opposing team by falling down, is negating the purpose and Spirit of the Game and must be penalised.
...

So you can't fall on, lie on, kneel on or sit on the player, or hold him down. You may grab the ball and try to take it off him, and he must release immediately.

I don't read it that way. I think the definitions are talking about the player who goes to ground, not the arriving opponent. It is only when we get to 14.2 that other players are mentioned.

 

[Ian_Cook]

I don't read it that way. I think the definitions are talking about the player who goes to ground, not the arriving opponent. It is only when we get to 14.2 that other players are mentioned.

A player who makes the ball unplayable, or who obstructs the opposing team by falling down, is negating the purpose and Spirit of the Game and must be penalised.

It is well defined in Law that only players who do not have the ball can be obstructing.