Idiot parent

[rugbyslave]

A problem like that get end up like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmQxUOxEWiA

 

[davidgh]

The Health and Safety brigade are having a field day here. Somewhat over the top methinks. Some idiot was very stupid and needs to get a very hard time, but time will tell on that one.

We have no idea if the kid was injured.

We have no idea how the offender, the Fullerians coach and other parents reacted.

The incident needs to be properly formally recorded by the ref and the coaches, the identity of the assailant established, witnesses ids established and all parties asked to take notes and be ready to provide a statement. If the subsequent behaviour is all civilised and the assailant is remorseful then let procedure take its course. restart and allow the poor kids to continue their fun. If it gets ugly, judgement call.

Simon yes an assault on a child has taken place and needs to be reported, the Club Safeguarding officer needs to be informed (but may well not be on site). I see no reason to ruin the game because of one idiots stupid action. As the ref - record it - Establish the offended coach and parents wishes with regard to taking formal or other action. remove the offender from the sidelines. (under citizens arrest if necessary)

I have seen the same problem occur, we handled it, we also recently had a parent on the FOP screaming at a child who had stupidly fouled his child. Calm it down, record it, ensure the right club authorities are being summonsed, and continue, don't blow the stupidity of one parent out of all propotion.

In terms of the game, if it was going to be a try - dead cert - PT given, else a penalty in my view would reset the game to the scene before the trip, if there was massive defence in the way of a try ..... scrum down.

If the guy is injured the situation is somewhat different.

Sideropes - guys grow up, there are thousands of school, mini and youth games in England every week without any sideropes. They are a great idea, but you need a lot of space, which we don't all have. Also some of these steel spikes increase the danger! Sideropes for every game of rugby in the country - I do hope not - for u16 formal matches - that is a good aspiration - I think about u15s is where the crowd and the kids become a real danger to each other, in terms of speed, momentum etc. so maybe start sideropes at u13, but it will be a while before it happens at every game.

A friend of mine who had his shoulder torn to bits as a spectator by two large fast moving u16s in Leics would confirm that the 2m safety zone is a good idea and so are sideropes!!! Serious surgery followed!

 

[RobLev]

The Health and Safety brigade are having a field day here....

Did you really just accuse andyscott of being a member of the health and safety brigade? Seriously? He'll have a writ in the post to you by tomorrow evening!

 

[OB..]

I could easily see that it's a huge flash point that could result in spectators v spectators and player vs players if the game continued. OB, you're a assuming that they will all behave like adults thereafter and will just move on from the incident. I'm not sure I share your confidence.

I am not making a judgement on this particular case, just challenging the view that in ALL such cases you should abandon the game. A lot depends on the immediate reaction of others, for example.

Definitely some teams I would abandon then and there, while others I would contemplate letting the game continue. I don't think there's a one rule that would fit all here. Up to the ref to assess it and make that judgment call in the context of everything that occurred before and immediately after the incident.

Exactly.

 

[Blackberry]

Abandon or not? In this case I would confidently abandon. First off, I could not gauge the further reactions and behaviour of the perps and the aggrieved teams. Second, I would now feel the pitch surround to be unsuitable. Third I would be expected to send a clear supportive message to the young players that a serious and rare breach of the spirit of the game had occurred.

 

[PaulDG]

Well I think we are just skirting around the facts.

The place wasn't roped off, they must be.

Very easy to say from the lofty heights of Level 6 Dev Squad.

Meanwhile, at every club in the union, every Sunday morning, there's a scramble to find the last set of post protectors in the kit store.

Every pitch roped off? Only if you want to abandon about half of all games currently played.

 

[OB..]

Abandon or not? In this case I would confidently abandon. First off, I could not gauge the further reactions and behaviour of the perps and the aggrieved teams.

By the time you had blown your whistle, you would already have had an initial reaction from spectators and players.

Second, I would now feel the pitch surround to be unsuitable.

In which case, it had been unsuitable from the start. That has not changed - it is only the attitudes of the people that has changed. Assess that.

Third I would be expected to send a clear supportive message to the young players that a serious and rare breach of the spirit of the game had occurred.

Can that only be done by abandoning the game? I think that is the extreme reaction, which may indeed be necessary in some cases, but IMHO not all.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Very easy to say from the lofty heights of Level 6 Dev Squad.

Meanwhile, at every club in the union, every Sunday morning, there's a scramble to find the last set of post protectors in the kit store.

Every pitch roped off? Only if you want to abandon about half of all games currently played.

According to the OP article this was the Herts County U16 Shield Final. So it was a special Final match occasion and at this age group one I would expect the host club to have the pitch roped off at the very least.

That would certainly be the expectation in my CB for any Final at adult or youth levels, and what I see happen at host clubs, who also lay on extra beer tents, hog roast / BBQ etc for County Finals.

As PaulDG says unrealistic (and un-necessary) week in week out for all youth matches, but it is a requirement in our CB for all Colts and U17 League and Cup matches.

 

[Blackberry]

By the time you had blown your whistle, you would already have had an initial reaction from spectators and players. In which case, it had been unsuitable from the start. That has not changed - it is only the attitudes of the people that has changed. Assess that. Can that only be done by abandoning the game? I think that is the extreme reaction, which may indeed be necessary in some cases, but IMHO not all.

Just to re-read what I wrote OB I said further reaction, not initial. How too do you assert that the reactions had been unsuitable from the start? Where has this suddenly come from? Following on, you ref games which are not roped off. However OB, if during the game an incident occurs which makes you think this game should be roped off, you would be very unwise not to reconsider your first view in the light of developments. Finally I have checked again what I wrote, it is clear from the opening words that this is a strategy aimed at the event we have been told about. Other events may require different strategies, but that is not what we are discussing.

 

[thepercy]

No. Just no. Unless every match you've refereed begins with an assault by one of the club member's parents upon an opposition player?

The fact that the incident happened has shown that the club has a problem with its parents. You cannot know, within the time available, that that problem is isolated to that single parent.



It's potentially a systemic problem with discipline within the club; so that fact it has happened is potentially indicative of the same thing happening again within the same game. And, WADR, your grasp of statistics is shaky. The probability of an event happening isn't changed by its occurrence. The likelihood of throwing a double-6 on the next roll of the dice remains 8.33% even after having thrown a double-6.

Under the logic that the game should be abandoned, should the team/whole club be barred from hosting matches, or playing matches? Should the Club be disbanded then? I thinks not.

 

[thepercy]

A problem like that get end up like this
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wmQxUOxEWiA

well that was disgusting

 

[RobLev]

Under the logic that the game should be abandoned, should the team/whole club be barred from hosting matches, or playing matches? Should the Club be disbanded then? I thinks not.

From my #41:

We are however dealing here with spectators. You have no disciplinary control over spectators; that is down to the club. If the spectators get out of hand, your only option is to abandon. You already know that the club is unable to control at least one spectator, to the extent not just of voluble dissent or abuse, but direct intervention in the course of the match within the pitch; without investigation you won't know whether there are any others who may repeat the offence. If the club say that the parent involved is a known malcontent, then their judgment in permitting him to attend is called into question such that you can't rely on their assurance that there will be no repetition; if they say they didn't expect it, then once again you have to question the reliabliity of any assurances they may give, because they clearly don't know who may be capable of such an act.

The reaction post event is key.

And the reaction may well persuade you that a subsequent match can safely be played there. But you don't have the luxury of reviewing the club's reaction post-event, because you have to make the decision on whether to continue with the match before recommencing.

and #51 (responding to precisely this point):

No. The CB (?) will also have the referee's report, the (initial, at least) outcome of the club's investigations and the club's proposed precautions to prevent any repetition of the incident. The CB will have equally been able to take a(n initial) view of the adequacy of those precautions and of the investigations, and may well have made its own investigations and proposed its own precautions, bearing in mind that the club itself may be subject to disciplinary action for allowing the incident. None of that would be available to you as referee in the few minutes you've got to decide whether to restart.

It may be that the CB would decide that the club should be barred from hosting matches for a period (if it has that jurisdiction) - but that is irrelevant to whether you continue, on the day, with the situation in which you find yourself.

 

[Blackberry]

Under the logic that the game should be abandoned, should the team/whole club be barred from hosting matches, or playing matches? Should the Club be disbanded then? I thinks not.

Like the spirit thepercy, but do you reckon you are making a bit of leap of logic there?

 

[OB..]

Just to re-read what I wrote OB I said further reaction, not initial. How too do you assert that the reactions had been unsuitable from the start?

I didn't. I was referring to the bit I quoted - your claim that "I would now feel the pitch surround to be unsuitable." You may indeed have now changed your mind, but it is the behaviour of the idiot that has caused that.

Finally I have checked again what I wrote, it is clear from the opening words that this is a strategy aimed at the event we have been told about.

The article referenced initially merely says that the person was sent from the field, with no indication of any further crowd problems. No indication that drastic measures were needed in this case.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

well that was disgusting

Indeed.

I bet Woods Attorneys (3:34) thought it was great.

 

[Browner]

http://www.mosselbayadvertiser.com/news.aspx?id=74264&h=Club-coach-handed-life-ban

Nice place ? !!

 

[Blackberry]

OB, give me a while and I'll try to work out what you are saying. In the meantime do you want me to pick you anything up from Earth?

 

[OB..]

OB, give me a while and I'll try to work out what you are saying. In the meantime do you want me to pick you anything up from Earth?

A sense of proportion? :biggrin:epper:

 

[SimonSmith]

I didn't. I was referring to the bit I quoted - your claim that "I would now feel the pitch surround to be unsuitable." You may indeed have now changed your mind, but it is the behaviour of the idiot that has caused that. The article referenced initially merely says that the person was sent from the field, with no indication of any further crowd problems. No indication that drastic measures were needed in this case.

post hoc ergo propter hoc.

 

[menace]

http://www.mosselbayadvertiser.com/news.aspx?id=74264&h=Club-coach-handed-life-ban

Nice place ? !!

"Roux said he was pleased the Leopards took a tough stance on the matter.

"Although attacks on match officials, either physically or verbally, are rare, we need to stamp it out completely."

I think someone needs a reality check on that statement.