Injury query

[RobLev]

Well I'm not a lawyer, what do you think?

I read it as an additional power introduced to bring some order to rolling substitutions. Which means of course that the ref in the OP was well within his powers.

 

[matty1194]

In answer to the OP I would of allowed the physio to deal with the initial injury and of stopped the clock for them to allowe time to deal with it, on subsequent occasions as long as they were not in the way of play then a big shout of "play on - he is not in the way" would of followed. Team would soon of decided if it was worth keeping him on seeing as they wernt getting their rest whilst he was being treated.

If the physio wants to deal with that player on the pitch out of the way of play then so be it.

 

[Browner]

I thought from the outset of this thread that i could/would easily give a ' must leave pitch' where a player repeatedly is going down with same injury for progressively longer ..

Well done NM, bravado or peer\coach pressure can seriously compromise an injured player.

 

[Pegleg]

I thought from the outset of this thread that i could/would easily give a ' must leave pitch' where a player repeatedly is going down with same injury for progressively longer ..

Well done NM, bravado or peer\coach pressure can seriously compromise an injured player.

Totally agree with this comment. The law give the ref total power to prevent a player from continuing if he (the ref) is concerned about any aspect of injury be it concussion or otherwise. The regulation that was given clearly supports the ultimate authority of the referee. I'm surprised that Simon posts: "In a L8 League match I think you exceeded your authority, manage it with to the book injury time off." Which, for me flies in the face of both Law 3.9 and regulation 13 namely:

regulation 13, appendix 2

22. Not more than two Player Interchanges per team may occur at any one time and may only occur during a stoppage in play and with the knowledge of the Referee who is entitled in his sole opinion to refuse to allow or postpone a Player Interchange if he believes either that the Player Interchange would prevent the opposition from restarting the game quickly or where a Player has been injured or that it would not be safe for the replacement Player who has been previously injured to play in the match.
25. A Player who suffers two injuries in a match which has necessitated that Player being replaced on each occasion is not permitted to act as a replacement following the second injury.

Law 3.9 THE REFEREE’S POWER TO STOP AN INJURED PLAYER FROM
CONTINUING
If the referee decides – with or without the advice of a doctor or other medically qualified
person – that a player is so injured that the player should stop playing, the referee may
order that player to leave the playing area. The referee may also order an injured player to
leave the field in order to be medically examined.


It's the ref's call. He used his sole power to stop an injured player continuing as per both Regulation and Law (whichever one trumps the other). He saw the state of the player and made a call. Can those of us that did not see the player's condition really state that we think the OP exceeded his authority with out a little more evidence?

 

[Ronald]

Agree 100% Peg, if I feel a player should not continue, whether u/14 school game or a 1st league club u/21 team, I will order the player off. I earlier commented on another thread about the physio abuse that even if both teams we ref have their own physio, we always have trained medics organised by the home team at each game. If these medics tell me a player should leave the field, he is gone. To me player safety is paramount, and I have in the past stopped the game and called the medics onto the field if I was unsure about a player's condition, even if he told me he was fine.

 

[Dixie]

3.9 THE REFEREE’S POWER TO STOP AN INJURED PLAYER FROM
CONTINUING
If the referee decides – with or without the advice of a doctor or other medically qualified
person – that a player is so injured that the player should stop playing, the referee may
order that player to leave the playing area. The referee may also order an injured player to
leave the field in order to be medically examined.

So both say that the referee can refuse to allow an injured player (whatever the injury) to stay / return to the game. So whilst the regulations allow up to 2 interchanges for an injury. That is a MAXIMUM that the referee can overrule.

This confirms, for me that the OP was correct in his actions.

Seconded

 

[Na Madrai]

Whilst out having a quiet drink last night, I was joined by a member of the Society's committee. Off the record, the club concerned have made an unofficial complaint about this decision - had they not won the match, it would be formal and they would be seeking a replay! In the meantime they have requested that I not be appointed to any more of their matches.

T'will be interesting to see the response, not that I will ever be so informed, of course!!!!!!

NM

 

[Simon Thomas]

I stand by my earlier comment.

In this case, as described in the OP, there were alternative management options and I do not agree the need to go to a forced confrontational decision to force the player off. As some suggest above, if it had been a youth match or a concussion for any age, it would be a different set of circumstances entirely.

I am fully aware of both 3.9 and Regulation 13, and agree with much said above by the various posters. However L3.9 and R13 are a framework within which referees operate, not a prescriptive process - each referee uses their experience and judgement to make the best decision for the scenario in front of them at the time.

Although happy to discuss such decisions & nuances here on a referee forum, or internally in Committee or with the referee, I (and the rest of our Committee) would back up one of our members, in most situations like this, unless the decision made is clearly wrong (e.g. retaining uncontested scrums after a blood injury or YC FR returns; allowing a YC to be replaced [except in County Youth matches !])

 

[crossref]

Whilst out having a quiet drink last night, I was joined by a member of the Society's committee. Off the record, the club concerned have made an unofficial complaint about this decision - had they not won the match, it would be formal and they would be seeking a replay! In the meantime they have requested that I not be appointed to any more of their matches.

T'will be interesting to see the response, not that I will ever be so informed, of course!!!!!!

NM

Gosh Na, yet another complaint?
you do generate an awful lot of complaints against you. At least the police werent called this time :wink:

 

[OB..]

In a L8 League match I think you exceeded your authority, manage it with to the book injury time off.

I stand by my earlier comment.

In this case, as described in the OP, there were alternative management options and I do not agree the need to go to a forced confrontational decision to force the player off. As some suggest above, if it had been a youth match or a concussion for any age, it would be a different set of circumstances entirely.

I read this as disagreeing with his judgement/management rather than arguing that he does not have the authority to enforce his view.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I read this as disagreeing with his judgement/management rather than arguing that he does not have the authority to enforce his view.

Fair call OB you can interpret it that way I suppose.

 

[Browner]

Re:

They only have a minute to treat the player, so after the minute they have to interchange him to carry on the treatment on the sidelines.

I yesterdays game L8, several players needing attention during the match at various times as normal. On field physio Treatment often occurring as game continues.

Then, in one incident we get to break in play & i observe the injured player being treated. As 'one minute' is approaching I inform the capt that " if your player cant continue then you need to interchange now"

Then a protracted debate amongst the same teams physio, manager, coach , capt + any other player with an opinion (!) Over whether the referee is being unreasonable or exceeding his authority, add in much apparent confusion and the replacements not discarding tracksuits etc and the whole incident seems to drag on much longer than allowing Mr Injured a bit more time to be treated.....!!!!

All in all I felt 'uneasy' as my insistence was being resisted( challenged) , so does anyone have with various any tips on how to best deal with this scenario to get a 'winning accepted' outcome

How to hasten
What to do if participants don't comply with requests
Time
Sanctions ????
Etc ....

 

[winchesterref]

Just play on if they won't change them?