Irish Laws (U13)

[manager]

We're playing in a tournament in Dublin soon and some of the laws differ slightly from the English. I'm not sure if these are unique to the tournament or standard in Ireland. The most notable is that players are penalised for tackling above the waist. Now we've come across this before in France but it was totally ignored by everyone. Does anyone know how this is applied in Ireland? Thanks.

 

[Donaldo01]

There is a very strong anti-high tackle culture at underage level in Leinster, though that sounds like a tournament rule rather than a standard interpretation. The "scrag" or "swinging" tackle is specifically outlawed at underage alright. You can get the Age Grade regs here for Leinster

 

[Browner]

We're playing in a tournament in Dublin soon and some of the laws differ slightly from the English. I'm not sure if these are unique to the tournament or standard in Ireland. The most notable is that players are penalised for tackling above the waist. Now we've come across this before in France but it was totally ignored by everyone. Does anyone know how this is applied in Ireland? Thanks.

Awaken Roblev, a legal debate on where waist's start & end needs to commence !! LOL

Seriously though, I can't add to your Iorish question, but in my experience such 'tourno' rules in juniors , are designed merely to seperate marginal from the bloody-clear & the bloody-bloody-obvious

When we faced not dissimilar, I prepared the players for 'below waist tackling, & then saw what becomes acceptable - which is player education in any event.

 

[crossref]

(aside - I hate special tournament rules. A recipe for misunderstanding, miscommunication, inconsistency confusion and conflict)

 

[Browner]

(aside - I hate special tournament rules. A recipe for misunderstanding, miscommunication, inconsistency confusion and conflict)

Well said that man
:clap:

nevertheless we had special rules in Cardiff recently, SW oversaw them !

 

[manager]

OK sounds like we will just have to see what happens...as we did in France. Ironically the advert for the tournament shows a clearly 'above the waist' tackle!

 

[TheBFG]

Insert Dixie's photo of his son handing off to the face! :wink:

 

[TheBFG]

These "out of country" rules are a pain in the arse

Last week i took my 14's to Swansea, aware there were differances i highlighted that we couldn't have lifting in the LO etc which they said OK to, however when we got there they insisted we used it, "you're in our country now, we played to yours when we came over now you play to ours here!"

Very bloody helpful! I refused and let them lift on their ball but not on ours. They just couldn't get their heads around why we didn't lift :chin:

I'm guessing aswell that if I did let our boys lift and one were to get injured, insurance would ahve been out of the window?

Didn't matter, we won anyway :biggrin:

 

[crossref]

you play to the Laws of the country you are in

only if this causes a safety issue (as opposed to a familiarity advantage) do you need to do anything.

- so most obviously: if one team cannot be considered STE (as they are not used to scrummaging) the referee calls uncontested scrums, as he is obliged to whenever there is no STE players

Line outs are interesting.
I am with the welsh - lifting is allowed in Wales..
A welsh team lifting causes no saftey issues for the english team.
If the English team can't lift safely, then they can't lift.. Obviosuly they'l be at a big disadvantage but, shrug, they chose to come to Wales.

I don't see why the Welsh team should desist from lifting just becasue the English team can't do it. I don't see any safety issue.

 

[TheBFG]

The safety issue is that Eng teams trying to lift when they haven't been trained to do so, try explaining that one to your insurance company :chin:

The other problem we had was that although we agreed they could lift on their ball we would compete for the ball, which the ref then pinged us for, but that's another story :wink:

 

[crossref]

The safety issue is that Eng teams trying to lift when they haven't been trained to do so, try explaining that one to your insurance company :chin:
:

indeed - so you shouldn't lift.
but no reason why your opponents can't lift, no safety isue there.

 

[Browner]

The safety issue is that Eng teams trying to lift when they haven't been trained to do so, try explaining that one to your insurance company :chin:

The other problem we had was that although we agreed they could lift on their ball we would compete for the ball, which the ref then pinged us for, but that's another story :wink:

ah ha ...the often underutilised antiwurzel law 23.4[d] !

 

[Decorily]

Have been coaching youths in Ireland for many years and have never come across the 'no tackle above the waist' rule. It's been a while since I actually coached U13 but feel sure that while, as said elsewhere, high-ish tackles would not be allowed, honest above waist tackles would be encouraged.

 

[crossref]

I wonder what the referees are expected to give for a tackle above the waist? a PK?

and from my experience of reffing u13 - I would expect numerous repeated infringements. do the tournament organisers envisage YCs?

 

[RobLev]

Awaken Roblev, a legal debate on where waist's start & end needs to commence !! LOL

Nah; I'll defer to Daftmedic's anatomical expertise on that one.

 

[manager]

Well I can tell you what happened now. On registration I asked about the tackling. They told us to ignore it. Dangerous high tackles were penalised as normal. And yes, in the original rules, it was a penalty offence for a tackle above the waist. Now, here are the other differences:

1) If you kick from hand outside your 22, your own side must gather the ball otherwise it's a scrum back to point of kick (we were told that the opposition would simply tap their hand on the ball to signify this)
2) Scrum-halves can follow the ball past the tunnel
3) Hand-offs allowed anywhere but in the face

Interestingly the tournament was centrally timed. No injury or extra time. Does make it run smoothly I must admit.

 

[L'irlandais]

... Now we've come across this before in France but it was totally ignored by everyone. ...

In Underage Rugby here in France, up to and including under 13, the tackle law is as follows :

The tackle must be made using both arms and must be at waist level. Any contact above this will be penalised.
Clip tackles are strictly prohibited. Source : FFR Rugby Digest (English Version)

It's a safety issue.
(Raised by our Nationwide insurers, who felt no deaths were aceptable on the field of play, whatever the age.)

 

[didds]

what's a clip tackle?

(ankle tap?)

didds

 

[crossref]

Well I can tell you what happened now. On registration I asked about the tackling. They told us to ignore it. Dangerous high tackles were penalised as normal. And yes, in the original rules, it was a penalty offence for a tackle above the waist. Now, here are the other differences:

1) If you kick from hand outside your 22, your own side must gather the ball otherwise it's a scrum back to point of kick (we were told that the opposition would simply tap their hand on the ball to signify this)
2) Scrum-halves can follow the ball past the tunnel
3) Hand-offs allowed anywhere but in the face
.

So you have printed rules the referees are told to ignore and unwritten rules you are expected to apply
...
Hmm

 

[L'irlandais]

what's a clip tackle?

(ankle tap?)

didds

C'est "une cuillère", you will have to ask the translator of la Version Française for further details.

Le plaquage, exécuté obligatoirement avec les 2 bras, doit être impérativement effectué au niveau de la ceinture. Toute prise au dessus sera sanctionnée. La cuillère est strictement interdite.

Another translation question from that page :

Toutefois, les précisions apportées sur les fiches des U9 et U11 concernant l'arbitrage sont aussi valables pour les U7 et les U9 : Arbitrage par un éducateur-arbitre ou 2 jeunes de la catégorie ou de catégories supérieures formés et encadrés

How does one say "éducateur-arbitre" in English?