didds
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[Ruck] Is the ball out?
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Flish
Referees in England
One of my views (as a biased Englishman) was that Wales we’re regularly overrunning the ruck and borderline playing players beyond the ruck, but they were doing it at tempo so not always massively obvious, it gave them a lot of front foot ball (that was on top of all the obligatory off feet from both teams!)
didds
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There were arguably players over the ball immediately prior to the still. If you've got access to walk v English it's from 34 minutes game time onwards.
If it's a twol though... Does anything change here? Who can play the ball? It's clearly not inside any feet of anybody
- - - Updated - - -
So is it in or out?
If it's a twol though... Does anything change here? Who can play the ball? It's clearly not inside any feet of anybody
- - - Updated - - -
So is it in or out?
Flish
Referees in England
Out, playable, and I would call it as such to avoid doubt
Zebra1922
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Agreed, I would call out so everyone knows. Fair to everyone this way so Wales know they need to act, England know they can come round as out of ruck/TWOL.
Also of interest is where the crocodile gets longer and longer, but people are only putting a hand on players in front of them. To me they are not bound and I will call the ball out.
Also saw a few today (Italy - Ireland) where tackled players placed the ball then pulled it back towards themselves, or SH kicking/tapping a ball back into the ruck area. Both offences in my book.
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didds
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So if a white player comes from behind the tackle in a TWOL (his side) then "its out" ? Correct? So both A&B are out?
didds
didds
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Here ya go... this piece of play. Tipuric goes into contact.
Two welsh supporters close over him and the ball and push the tackler away from the ball - tackler was already on the gournd. So it doesd indeed look like a TWOL.
Both red players advance opast the ball, which is held by Tipuric on the ground steading it (Ive no issue with that). the ball is clearly behind the last foot of either red supporter (one fo whoim actualy ends up going to ground past the ball/tackle).
BillyV come from way behind the tackle on his side of the tackle, albeit several feet to one side. He is actually I suspecrt out of JPs peripheral vision at this time (FWTW!).
JP awards a PK against BV. I cant hear what JP says to BV as bloody Butler is wittering on.
The only reason I can think that may be a PK really is if BV had to come from directly from behind the ball, and not from a side - or holding the ball behind the rear feet means the ball is still in a TWOIL and unplayable. If its one of them I may disgaree with the conept but the law reference would at least educate me
If its the fomer then the red player that has gone to ground past the tackle has effectively closed that route off. If its the latter then its open season on TWOLs never being contestable.
??
didds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npcdFxrnzXw&feature=youtu.be&t=2182
Two welsh supporters close over him and the ball and push the tackler away from the ball - tackler was already on the gournd. So it doesd indeed look like a TWOL.
Both red players advance opast the ball, which is held by Tipuric on the ground steading it (Ive no issue with that). the ball is clearly behind the last foot of either red supporter (one fo whoim actualy ends up going to ground past the ball/tackle).
BillyV come from way behind the tackle on his side of the tackle, albeit several feet to one side. He is actually I suspecrt out of JPs peripheral vision at this time (FWTW!).
JP awards a PK against BV. I cant hear what JP says to BV as bloody Butler is wittering on.
The only reason I can think that may be a PK really is if BV had to come from directly from behind the ball, and not from a side - or holding the ball behind the rear feet means the ball is still in a TWOIL and unplayable. If its one of them I may disgaree with the conept but the law reference would at least educate me
If its the fomer then the red player that has gone to ground past the tackle has effectively closed that route off. If its the latter then its open season on TWOLs never being contestable.
??
didds
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npcdFxrnzXw&feature=youtu.be&t=2182
Add in the fact that when the red player goes to ground beyond the tackle he pushes the white offside line back ... (new law for rucks bringing them in line with TWOL
As predicted, its not taking long for teams to realise that and act accordingly
As predicted, its not taking long for teams to realise that and act accordingly
didds
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still B was only adjusted in order to check the difference bnetween the tackled player still holding the ball or not.
So what you/we are saying is if the tackled player who should release the ball doesn't the oppositon cannot come from an onside position etc etc to claim the ball if it is still being held beyond the rear foot etc? Is that right?
didds
So what you/we are saying is if the tackled player who should release the ball doesn't the oppositon cannot come from an onside position etc etc to claim the ball if it is still being held beyond the rear foot etc? Is that right?
didds
It's getting silly isn't it ?
We have a collection of red players all on rhe floor
The foremost red player is setting the Blue offside loan, several metres from the ball
The rearmost ref player has his hand illegally on the ball meaning it's not out
And here was me thinking a player on the ground was out of the game
We have a collection of red players all on rhe floor
The foremost red player is setting the Blue offside loan, several metres from the ball
The rearmost ref player has his hand illegally on the ball meaning it's not out
And here was me thinking a player on the ground was out of the game
didds
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that's the bit Im tryiong to get soem clarity on CR
Is a hand on the ball behind the rear feet (ie "clear") keeping the ball "inside"
a) a ruck
b) a TWOL
c) both
d) neither
?
Lets ignore for now the legalities of handling the ball at this juncture
didds
for me
- clearly it's illegal to be on the ground, with your hand on the ball (13.3, 18.11, 18.15, 14.7 )
- but for a tackled player : we generally tolerate it, by convention
- but if the ball is otherwise out, an illegal hand on it can't make it in
- clearly it's illegal to be on the ground, with your hand on the ball (13.3, 18.11, 18.15, 14.7 )
- but for a tackled player : we generally tolerate it, by convention
- but if the ball is otherwise out, an illegal hand on it can't make it in
good point - this new TWOL idea (born May 2018) is causing more complication than the mono-ruck from the trials that it replaced.
I think that if the ball carrier takes his hand off it, as required by 14.7, then the ball has clearly left the tackle area
didds
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its gets more bizarre dunnit? Cos potentially it seems that if the tackled player keeps his hand on the ball, depsite it otherwise being clear - the oppo cannot advance towards it. And we can all just look at it until half/full time? Well actually not half/full time cos its not dead!
winner!
didds
winner!
didds