[Ruck] Is the ball out?

[Elpablo73]

After re-watching the video by Alain Rolland on TWOL, it was stated that if the player over the ball moves from being over the ball, the offside lines disappear. And from both these pictures it would seem that the player over the ball has moved past the point of being over it so no more offside lines. :chin:

Link: https://youtu.be/m9xHTCUCm0I?t=455

 

[crossref]

After re-watching the video by Alain Rolland on TWOL, it was stated that if the player over the ball moves from being over the ball, the offside lines disappear. And from both these pictures it would seem that the player over the ball has moved past the point of being over it so no more offside lines. :chin:

Link: https://youtu.be/m9xHTCUCm0I?t=455

That video was always off piste , and anyway the Law has changed since then .. when AR made the video the TWOL had not been invented

 

[buff]

In the YouTube clip, you can hear Jaco tell BV that the ball was "still covered". Does that mean he thought there was a ruck? It can't have anything to do with a TWOL, can it?

 

[belladonna]

Hang on a mo, isn't there a convention that "away from" means 1m or so? From previous threads here that's what I've been led to believe, IIRC.

If so, surely the ball isn't "out" of the TWOL (i.e. the TWOL isn't over) because it only ends when the ball has moved away from the tackle area, and clearly at least in A it hasn't, regardless of the (technically illegal but commonly accepted) hand on the ball (or not)?

14.11

The tackle ends when:
A ruck is formed.
A player on their feet from either team gains possession of the ball and moves away or passes or kicks the ball.
The ball leaves the tackle area.
The ball is unplayable. If there is doubt about which player did not conform to law, the referee orders a scrum. The throw is taken by the team moving forward prior to the stoppage or, if no team was moving forward, by the attacking team.

 

[Phil E]

The tackle area is defined by the players in it.

The 1m is a definition of close. As in close to the scrum. Although that definition has helpfully been removed from the re-write of the law book.

 

[Rich_NL]

The tackle area is defined by the players in it.

The 1m is a definition of close. As in close to the scrum. Although that definition has helpfully been removed from the re-write of the law book.

Definitions: Near

 

[CrouchTPEngage]

Pre season 2018-19, I attended a couple of meetings where the (June 2018) conference clarifications were communicated with videos.
We were advised that "if the ball is clearly exposed the ruck is deemed over. That's a variation to 15.17 / 15.18 / 15.9 which describe the conditions for ending a ruck"
The videos showed rucks where competing players had all gone off feet, the ball was at the back of the ruck with the 9 about to pick it up. In the video, a defender was penalised for going through the ex-ruck and putting his hands on the ball. We were then told that , this season, that defender should not be penalised and, whilst the defender must not engage the 9, he can pickup the ball.
This seems related in that the implication is that we should discourage negative time-wasting with the ball at the back of the ruck and encourage the 9 to play it away with more urgency.
https://www.londonrugby.com/training-blog/2018/9/16/world-rugby-june-2018-focus-areas

 

[Phil E]

Definitions: Near

Thanks

 

[crossref]

Pre season 2018-19, I attended a couple of meetings where the (June 2018) conference clarifications were communicated with videos.
We were advised that "if the ball is clearly exposed the ruck is deemed over. That's a variation to 15.17 / 15.18 / 15.9 which describe the conditions for ending a ruck

Everyone seems to have completely forgotten about that though .. I haven't heard it mentioned since September, has anyone else ?

 

[menace]

Everyone seems to have completely forgotten about that though .. I haven't heard it mentioned since September, has anyone else ?

At the risk of starting yet another symantics war, personally I didnt need a clarrification saying that a ball that was clear of bodies (exposed) meant the ruck was over?? How you forget something that is already that obvious is beyond me.
Why WR even had to issue it was perplexing but I imagine it was more to help explain to players that "hands on" doea not always mean it's out?!

 

[Pinky]

In the Irish game at the weekend the ref called the ball out a couple of times when the ball still appeared to be under the feet of the last of the "crocodile"

 

[Phil E]

In the Irish game at the weekend the ref called the ball out a couple of times when the ball still appeared to be under the feet of the last of the "crocodile"

Were all members of the crocodile fully bound?

 

[Pinky]

Were all members of the crocodile fully bound?

To me it seemed no more nor no less than the "norm"

 

[crossref]

Crocodile?
It's a caterpillar , isn't it

 

[Phil E]

To me it seemed no more nor no less than the "norm"

Not fully bound then :biggrin: