Japan v Maori All Blacks

[Ian_Cook]

Here's an odd one.

As he makes secondary signal 34. Offside at scrum, ruck or maul the referee says

"There was no ruck, but there was a tackle, 14 is offside"


WTF? What Law is he referencing here. There is no mention of offside in Law 15

 

[winchesterref]

I can't work that one out either

 

[Waspsfan]

I think the penalty is against 14 red for entering the tackle zone not through the gate. He uses the word offside which is not correct.

He should probably be removed from all further appointments at any level, made to apologise to the nation of Japan and then locked in a cellar until he learns to never say anything wrong ever again.

 

[Simon Thomas]

I cannot see any offence in either of the breakdown contacts.

Certainly not an offside at tackle ( which doesn't exist) but that is what he said and signalled.

A bit of a roasting would have followed in the de-brief and his head would be in his hands when he was doing his own review off DVD during the week.

Development point to note and act upon and how all referees improve each and every week.

 

[Browner]

If he'd called Red 8 for " in at the side" at the tackle, then it wouldnt have surprised me.




PS.... Why did the marketing ' brand' people change the NZ Maoris into the Maoris AB's?!!? I can see why the NZ Maoris had a bonafide reason for using the Haka, maybe this is the answer, return it to the original owners!

 

[Ian_Cook]

OK, so I have had a closer listen to what he said (actions in brackets)

"You're offside at that tackle" (pointing) "you" (makes signal 34)

then


"There was no ruck, but there was a tackle, 14 is offside" (makes signal 34 again)
then


"....within the metre"

Still can't work out what his thinking is here. I can't see an offence by Red 14, and his explanation doesn't clarify what the offence was.

 

[Simon Thomas]

Likewise OB - I would get a couple of pints in for us, sit down, ask the referee to run through his thinking on this incident and sit back and listen........as he dug a deeper and deeper hole !

 

[crossref]

is the Maori All Blacks the last team in the world for which there is a racial qualification?


I think the offence was not coming throgh the gate.

 

[The Fat]

If he'd called Red 8 for " in at the side" at the tackle, then it wouldnt have surprised me.

Agree

 

[The Fat]

Likewise OB - I would get a couple of pints in for us, sit down, ask the referee to run through his thinking on this incident and sit back and listen........as he dug a deeper and deeper hole !

Hhhmmm...
Currently waiting to watch a replay of a game I watched earlier today to check if, after calling a knock-on against black then just as blue make a half break, the ref blows whistle, apologises to blue for blowing early, allows play to go on when blue take a quick tap. Really hoping I have missed something here. That one aside, he did say later on, "You've got to let him up".

 

[RobLev]

Hhhmmm...
Currently waiting to watch a replay of a game I watched earlier today to check if, after calling a knock-on against black then just as blue make a half break, the ref blows whistle, apologises to blue for blowing early, allows play to go on when blue take a quick tap. Really hoping I have missed something here. That one aside, he did say later on, "You've got to let him up".

Aren't you allowed to take it quickly for a knock-on?

 

[winchesterref]

A quick scrum? If only!

 

[Crucial]

is the Maori All Blacks the last team in the world for which there is a racial qualification?
.

They aren't racially selected. Players qualify through 'whakapapa'. Whakapapa is not as simple as lineage or genetic descent. Basically if you show whakapapa connection to an iwi (people/tribe) you qualify.
As an example I once knew a man (deceased now) that although being of the first generation of his ancestry born in NZ and was of Dalmation lineage, was revered by his local iwi because of the way he lived his live with the land around him and was considered a local 'guardian' of tapu sites. He would have whakapapa to his spiritual connection with the land and the iwi.
I can understand how these concepts are difficult to understand by other cultures, but what bemuses me is that things like NZ Maori Rugby and the Haka are part of century plus old tradition, not some gimmick or racial selection and the disparaging comments usually come from folk that come from countries that hold tradition in very high regard as the fabric of their own cultures.
As for the marketing part, for starters any NZ rugby team wearing black was being reffered to as the All Blacks despite whether they were or not. This adds the moniker as an official part of the name. Also, because we live in a rather small economy, the need to leverage what is the most famous brand in rugby is large. It widens brand coverage.

 

[Browner]

As for the marketing part, for starters any NZ rugby team wearing black was being reffered to as the All Blacks despite whether they were or not. This adds the moniker as an official part of the name. Also, because we live in a rather small economy, the need to leverage what is the most famous brand in rugby is large. It widens brand coverage.

I understand 'why' it was done, but occasionally it seems like "tradition" is brandished or discarded whenever it suits

I'd be interested to see an NZ internal competition, maybe call it the "Tradition Cup"

Maori AB v. Pacific Islander descent AB v Other Qualifying ABs.

Would be a great earner for the economy :bday:as virtually everyone would be involved.

 

[Ian_Cook]

They aren't racially selected. Players qualify through 'whakapapa'. Whakapapa is not as simple as lineage or genetic descent. Basically if you show whakapapa connection to an iwi (people/tribe) you qualify.
As an example I once knew a man (deceased now) that although being of the first generation of his ancestry born in NZ and was of Dalmation lineage, was revered by his local iwi because of the way he lived his live with the land around him and was considered a local 'guardian' of tapu sites. He would have whakapapa to his spiritual connection with the land and the iwi.
I can understand how these concepts are difficult to understand by other cultures, but what bemuses me is that things like NZ Maori Rugby and the Haka are part of century plus old tradition, not some gimmick or racial selection and the disparaging comments usually come from folk that come from countries that hold tradition in very high regard as the fabric of their own cultures.
As for the marketing part, for starters any NZ rugby team wearing black was being reffered to as the All Blacks despite whether they were or not. This adds the moniker as an official part of the name. Also, because we live in a rather small economy, the need to leverage what is the most famous brand in rugby is large. It widens brand coverage.

Yep, that's what really pisses me off with some of the stupid (and borderline bigoted) comments that get made here. Its the Colonial attitude; almost as if, because we dont have a written history that goes back to the time of the Romans and earlier, that we somehow haven't earned the right to our own culture and traditions. Worse yet, most of them don't even realise they are doing it!

I ran into the same arguments from these types a few years after Super 12 started. Numerous, mostly English posters (and not just on this forum) would scoff at what they considered to be "made up teams" with "made up names" like "Crusaders and Hurricanes". When I challenged them by pointing out that Leicester Tigers was a made up team with a made up name (formed from the amalgamation of three clubs in 1880 and first named "Tigers" a few years later, I was met with "but that is a traditional name that has been around 125 years".

Not in 1890 it wouldn't have been. Go Figure!

 

[Phil E]

Fish?

 

[crossref]

In the 1860s to 90s when lots of rugby clubs formed silly made up names were very much the fashion
Harlequins, Wasps, Saracens survive to this day, one of the founding clubs of the RFU were Pelicans. There have been many others.

 

[OB..]

In the 1860s to 90s when lots of rugby clubs formed silly made up names were very much the fashion
Harlequins, Wasps, Saracens survive to this day, one of the founding clubs of the RFU were Pelicans. There have been many others.

I think that was very largely a London phenomenon for obvious reasons. Elsewhere teams like Gloucester, Bristol, Bedford just had town/city names. Old Boys clubs took the name of the school.

The 21 founder members were: Blackheath, Richmond, Civil Srvice, Wellington College, Guy's Hospital, Harlequins, King's College, St Paul's School (all still existing) plus Ravenscourt Park, West Kent, Marlborough Nomads, Wimbledon Hornets, Gipsies, Law Club, Flamingoes, Clapham Rovers, Queen's House, Lausanne, Addison, Mohicans, Belsize Park (defunct).

 

[Browner]

Hang on a cotton pickin minute, if traditions are being upheld, then no one can criticise bigoted views, cos they are traditionally English.....

If "Bigot" means "intolerant of another person's opinion" then ive just popped a rib chuckling at the irony...

Question..... Do the NZ Maoris ever play the NZAB? & if not why not?

 

[Crucial]

Question..... Do the NZ Maoris ever play the NZAB? & if not why not?

Do the England team ever play the Saxons? If not then the reasons are probably the same.


I don't get the point you are trying to make.