Kick at goal from own 22m

[Norfolk_Ref]

Red are currently 1 points ahead. Red get a penalty on their own 22. Captain asks how long left. I reply 1min 10sec. He takes time and kicks the pen towards the Blue team posts. Time runs out as ball is in the air. Blue catch, run through the Reds, kicks over full back and scores. Blue win by 4 points.

Any issues with the kick not being credible and being a blatant time wasting? Red got what they deserve really.

Cheers,

Lewis

 

[Decorily]

Any issues with the kick ....

Cheers,

Lewis

No!!!

 

[Dickie E]

As a ref, I wouldn't take any concern with the credibility of a shot at goal. Player is entitled to act freely as he sees fit. As it turned out, a risky tactic.

I wouldn't, however, be so specific about time remaining. In answer to the question I would reply with "less than 2 minutes" or similar

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

I hope somebody caught it on video. Should get some sort of award at end of season prize giving!!
What were the clubs? would love to see the respective match reports

 

[Decorily]

I wouldn't, however, be so specific about time remaining. In answer to the question I would reply with "less than 2 minutes" or similar

Yes and when asked "Is this last play Ref?" don't reply "Yes"......I personally respond with "Time is expired".

 

[crossref]

I wouldn't, however, be so specific about time remaining. In answer to the question I would reply with "less than 2 minutes" or similar

normally, when the question is asked at a scrum or whatever, that's the sort of answer I'd give, but with the ball dead, a PK awarded, and 1 point in it, I reckon a very specific answer is the best one.

 

[Norfolk_Ref]

normally, when the question is asked at a scrum or whatever, that's the sort of answer I'd give, but with the ball dead, a PK awarded, and 1 point in it, I reckon a very specific answer is the best one.

My thought process exactly crossref. I had the Wales game, "Is there time for the lineout, Sir?" in my mind!

 

[chbg]

Any issues with the kick ...

Red seem to have taken longer than 60 seconds (or the ball was in the air for a very long time) if it was still in the air 70 seconds later. I would have been warning and then thinking about a Blue scrum. Alternatively manage the time so that there is still 10 -15 seconds left after the kick.

(On Sunday I had a team score to put themselves in the lead with less than one minute to play; the kicker/captain did not ask how long to go and kicked the conversion (excellently, it scored from close to 5m line) within 40 seconds. Time for the re-start. He did know that time was nearly up as questions had been flowing for the previous 5 minutes. I would have told him the time remaining to closest 5/10 seconds, and left it to him to work out that he could take longer than that to kick the conversion.)

 

[crossref]

Red seem to have taken longer than 60 seconds (or the ball was in the air for a very long time) if it was still in the air 70 seconds later.

the minute doesn't start until the tee arrives

[LAWS](c) No delay. If a kicker indicates to the referee the intention to kick a penalty kick at goal, the kick must be taken within one minute from the time the player indicates the intention to kick at goal. The intention to kick is signalled by the arrival of the kicking tee or sand, or when the player makes a mark on the ground.[/LAWS]

 

[FlipFlop]

I'm lost. Do you really mean someone in their own 22m, took a shot at goal? Over 80m? Anything beyond 50m, unless at altitude is highly unlikely. Beyond the 10m - I'm not buying it.

I would argue that any kick is clearly not a kick at goal. Would have considered a scrum at the mark, if Blue hadn't caught the ball and ran it back. You could also argue deliberately infringing......

 

[Norfolk_Ref]

The timings given may not have exact.

FlipFlop, could you elaborate on how this may be a deliberate infringement?

 

[FlipFlop]

If you take a kick at goal, knowing you have no ability, or real intention to kick at goal, then you are deliberately choosing to infringe.

Not saying you would give the PK, just mentioning that if someone elected to kick at goal from inside their own 22m, then they have no real intention to kick for goal. And that would be a deliberate tactic.

 

[crossref]

For some of the teams I ref, a PK from the touchline would present an insurmountable challenge . But is actually an offence to attempt a kick you know you cant get? I don't think so

Silly thing to do though, why not take as much time as you can over a kick to touch and then as much time as you can over a lineout.. Must add up to a minute, then set up a maul and keep hold of the ball until the whistle goes

 

[didds]

and then as much time as you can over a lineout.. Must add up to a minute, then set up a maul and keep hold of the ball until the whistle goes

Like Scotland you mean?

Oh...


didds

 

[Taff]

If you take a kick at goal, knowing you have no ability, or real intention to kick at goal, then you are deliberately choosing to infringe.

What law are they infringing?

I assume you mean 10.2(b) but I reckon that's a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line?

 

[didds]

What about a bloke that says he'll have a go 62m from his oppo line about 15m from touch?

Would you believe him?

didds

 

[Dickie E]

What law are they infringing?

I assume you mean 10.2(b) but I reckon that's a slippery slope. Where do you draw the line?

Maybe wait til he takes the kick then if its absolute shite ping him for taking the pi5s

 

[FlipFlop]

If I were to try and sell the PK for deliberate infringing (which I wouldn't, but I might be tempted to either award scrum (due to not a kick at goal) or FK (time wasting)) then the route I would go down is:

IF someone in an game of rugby, at sea level (or about), said to me, inside their OWN 22, we'll go for the posts, I know they are taking the piss. I would point out to the captain/kicker that they were taking the piss, and if the resulting kick was not a clear and obvious attempt at goal, which would need to show that the kicker at least had an outside chance, then I would treat as "act contrary to good sportsmanship", or "deliberately wasting time" or deliberate infringement of "kick at goal". In otherwords - would make it clear beforehand what the expectation was. I would then let them take the kick, and judge it from that.

And in any event, I would be struggling to allow them to take a place kick from inside their own 22m. The watch would be off, and I would be speaking to the captain. If they still took it, would judge of the kick, and then play advantage for the scrum/FK as per above.

Would be interested in learning where the kick landed (half way line? 10m line? opposite 22m?)

To me - this is an obvious "non attempt" at goal, and is about wasting time. Would act to stop the time being wasted.

 

[leaguerefaus]

If they're taking a shot from their 22 and you're the AR, are you going behind the posts?

 

[OB..]

If you want to argue that kicking a goal was not his real intention, then you have to accept that the law only requires him to "kick at goal". As long as the kick is in the right direction, and not a place kick to touch, he could be said to have complied with the law.

My concern is that you will have to start making a judgement on other attempts, perhaps when you don't know the kicker's ability. I can remember seeing a fly half at Level 11 kick a drop goal into the wind from halfway. Totally unexpected.

One test would be to consider how you might phrase a law to specifically outlaw unrealistic attempts at goal without leaving it entirely to the referee to judge.