[Law] Knock on into the dead ball area.

[frenchie851]

I didn't mention who the ref was in the game I was watching (because I didn't want it to affect the discussion) but was Owens, so I am happy to go with "he got it right and I got it wrong".

I do have to say though, I think we are giving 'what the players are expecting' too much credence though haha, on Saturday when I confidently pointed to the 22 every single player accepted it without even a murmer and off we went (and it was a very good level 6 game so it was a game played by very experienced players from both sides).

Having seen Owens award the scrum and having read through opinions, laws quoted from every one on here I will be awarding a 5m scrum in the future.

 

[crossref]

What will you do if the attackers kick the ball into the in goal, knock it on, and the defenders then touch down ?

 

[Treadmore]

What will you do if the attackers kick the ball into the in goal, knock it on, and the defenders then touch down ?

scrum 5, defenders put-in as per normal

and yes that seems "worse" for the defenders than if the attacking knock-on had not occurred!

 

[frenchie851]

What will you do if the attackers kick the ball into the in goal, knock it on, and the defenders then touch down ?

Thinking on my feet and not reading an law before answering I think I would give a 22.

My reasoning for this is that when the ball is taken into in-goal I always think about who took it into in goal.

In you example the attacking team took it in to in goal before the knock on occurred then the defending team touch the ball down.


In my original example the knock on occurred before the ball was taken in-goal and that's why I would (now after this thread) give the 5 meter scrum.

Happy to be correct on this though because I am still quite new to reffing and I'm definitely still learning as I 'do'!

 

[crossref]

Thinking on my feet and not reading an law before answering I think I would give a 22.

My reasoning for this is that when the ball is taken into in-goal I always think about who took it into in goal.

In you example the attacking team took it in to in goal before the knock on occurred then the defending team touch the ball down.


In my original example the knock on occurred before the ball was taken in-goal and that's why I would (now after this thread) give the 5 meter scrum.

Happy to be correct on this though because I am still quite new to reffing and I'm definitely still learning as I 'do'!

This is IMO in line with the Law Book. (see 12.11)
Nevertheless most refs will give a scrum

 

[OB..]

This is IMO in line with the Law Book. (see 12.11)
Nevertheless most refs will give a scrum

You choose to ignore the fact that there was an infringement, for which the sanction is a scrum.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

For those of you who want to give a 22DO, I have a way out.
Red knock on into in goal, shout advantage Blue. Blue pick it up, shout advantage over. Blue touch it down. 22 DO. Simples! All conforming with the law book.

 

[crossref]

For those of you who want to give a 22DO, I have a way out.
Red knock on into in goal, shout advantage Blue. Blue pick it up, shout advantage over. Blue touch it down. 22 DO. Simples! All conforming with the law book.

Indeed, you have hit the nub of it. How is advantage gained ?

How is territorial advantage gained (was there none, or was there too much?)

How is tactical advantage gained ? For instance did blue gain the freedom to play the ball how they liked ? What if he kicks it ?

 

[Dickie E]

For those of you who want to give a 22DO, I have a way out.
Red knock on into in goal, shout advantage Blue. Blue pick it up, shout advantage over. Blue touch it down. 22 DO. Simples! All conforming with the law book.

Red knock on into in goal, shout advantage Blue. Just before ball rolls over DBL, shout advantage over. :tongue:

 

[Rich_NL]

For those of you who want to give a 22DO, I have a way out.
Red knock on into in goal, shout advantage Blue. Blue pick it up, shout advantage over. Blue touch it down. 22 DO. Simples! All conforming with the law book.

Blue pick it up, shout advantage over. Red clatters blue, rips in the tackle, and scores. You award the try, blue coach goes mental, the ref assessor presses his fingers to the bridge of his nose and shakes his head...

 

[Arabcheif]

Hmm this is indeed a tricky one. I'm in the camp that it should be a 5m scrum to the defending team. The offence happened before the ball went into in-goal. So advantage stops when the ball goes dead. Therefore I'd go back to the knock on.

I get the arguments and I don't by the too much advantage for awarding a DO. But a drop out is a restart kick for a ball that's went in goal and been made dead by the defending team.

 

[Balones]

I can appreciate the different arguments for what ‘should’ be the outcome or what people prefer etc but the debate is rather pointless in my opinion because a 5M scrum is what you have to award because that is the law and there is no flexibility. (At the moment.)

 

[crossref]

I can appreciate the different arguments for what ‘should’ be the outcome or what people prefer etc but the debate is rather pointless in my opinion because a 5M scrum is what you have to award because that is the law and there is no flexibility. (At the moment.)

Because there was s no way to gain advantage after a knock on in goal ?

 

[colesy]

the ref assessor presses his fingers to the bridge of his nose and shakes his head...

We don't do that sort of thing - we get training in maintaining a poker face :smile:

 

[Balones]

Because there was s no way to gain advantage after a knock on in goal ?

Not if it is made dead.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

There is a way to gain advantage as I've explained but I'd only do it if the team who didn't knock it on were getting hammered in the game and in the scrums.

 

[Decorily]

There is a way to gain advantage as I've explained but I'd only do it if the team who didn't knock it on were getting hammered in the game and in the scrums.

You seem to be implying that you base certain decisions on how a team are performing.....level out the playing field as such!

 

[OB..]

For those of you who want to give a 22DO, I have a way out.
Red knock on into in goal, shout advantage Blue. Blue pick it up, shout advantage over. Blue touch it down. 22 DO. Simples! All conforming with the law book.

At the moment you shout advantage over, Blue has not in fact gained any advantage[LAWS]A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient[/LAWS]
You should therefore go back for the defending side 5 metre scrum

 

[Balones]

For those of you who want to give a 22DO, I have a way out.
Red knock on into in goal, shout advantage Blue. Blue pick it up, shout advantage over. Blue touch it down. 22 DO. Simples! All conforming with the law book.

They’ve still made it dead in the goal area.

 

[crossref]

At the moment you shout advantage over, Blue has not in fact gained any advantage[LAWS]A mere opportunity to gain an advantage is not sufficient[/LAWS]
You should therefore go back for the defending side 5 metre scrum

So is it no advantage or too much advantage?