[Line out] Lineout called but not in touch

[crossref]

Would you call a forward pass and then allow someone to persuade you that actually it wasn't a forward pass at all? Of course not

Very different from touch where you have a definitive line and a TJ (that you have confidence in) in a much better position to see.

Don't agree.
It's very easy for me to NOT SEE a foot in touch -- that's exactly why we have TJs, and I blow my whistle when his flag goes up

But many times in a game I DO happen to see that a foot is in touch. Then I blow my whistle. I don't wait for a flag, and if I DID see a foot in touch I wouldn't allow someone to persuade me that I didn't really.

 

[DocY]

Don't agree.
It's very easy for me to NOT SEE a foot in touch -- that's exactly why we have TJs, and I blow my whistle when his flag goes up

But many times in a game I DO happen to see that a foot is in touch. Then I blow my whistle. I don't wait for a flag, and if I DID see a foot in touch I wouldn't allow someone to persuade me that I didn't really.

TBH I can't see it happening in this sort of situation. As you say - you've seen a C&O foot in touch, you're not going to change your mind.

The only situation in which I can see it Chris' approach happening is when you think the TJ has signalled touch when he hasn't. Shouldn't happen, but it's not inconceivable.

 

[chbg]

It could also occur when the referee 'sees' the wrong line i.e. one of the 5m dashes instead of the TL. In that case, it is purely an honest mistake and we go to the scrum when it is realised. Otherwise, on the pitch the referee is always right, even if he is afterwards shown to have based his decision on an inaccuracy.

To err is human ... enough said!

- - - Updated - - -

It could also occur when the referee 'sees' the wrong line i.e. one of the 5m dashes instead of the TL. In that case, it is purely an honest mistake and we go to the scrum when it is realised. Otherwise, on the pitch the referee is always right, even if he is afterwards shown to have based his decision on an inaccuracy.

To err is human ... enough said!

 

[Decorily]

............ when you think the TJ has signalled touch when he hasn't. Shouldn't happen, but it's not inconceivable.[/QUOTE

For instance... I was running the line at a national final and sprinting to keep up with a winger on a break down the tram lines. He is tackled to the floor into touch 20m out and offloads inside in the tackle. I being an 18 stone 6' 5" ex second row had to hurdle the pile of bodies as they hit the deck in front of me and as I did both hands were raised in the air (gracefully..ish!) to maintain balance. Of course this meant that the flag also went upish. The Referee had the presence of mind to follow play to the score in the corner before confirming with me that I wasn't in fact signalling for touch. Referee has since officiated at World Cup while I..... well lets say haven't!!

 

[DocY]

The Referee had the presence of mind to follow play to the score in the corner before confirming with me that I wasn't in fact signalling for touch.

And this is exactly what you should do! Yeah, there are some situations where you might blow up too soon or when you're not absolutely sure, but I don't think there's much excuse for that on touch line calls - if the TJ really is signalling and you haven't reacted he, or someone else will let you know soon enough.

 

[crossref]

For instance... I was running the line at a national final and sprinting to keep up with a winger on a break down the tram lines. He is tackled to the floor into touch 20m out and offloads inside in the tackle. I being an 18 stone 6' 5" ex second row had to hurdle the pile of bodies as they hit the deck in front of me and as I did both hands were raised in the air (gracefully..ish!) to maintain balance. Of course this meant that the flag also went upish. The Referee had the presence of mind to follow play to the score in the corner before confirming with me that I wasn't in fact signalling for touch. Referee has since officiated at World Cup while I..... well lets say haven't!!

I feel that there must be a video of that somewhere--

 

[Decorily]

I feel that there must be a video of that somewhere--

Yes there is....and no I won't!!

 

[pwhaling]

I had one of these the other day. I, however, did not clear the bodies.

 

[Decorily]

I had one of these the other day. I, however, did not clear the bodies.

Hope it was the scrum half you (accidentally) trampled on.:drool:

 

[chbg]

I had one of these the other day. I, however, did not clear the bodies.

There must be a video of THAT somewhere ...

 

[Dixie]

Interesting. Everyone goes with the referees call for a Red lineout even though this creates a turnover in reds favor.

Nobody would go for "My error, not in touch, we'll restart with a White scrum in 15"? That seems the most equitable for the players.

But how do you know it's your error? Someone without any standing in the game told you so. This is the thin end of a very dangerous wedge. At the next penalty, the same TJ alerts you to the fact that you missed the fact that the tackler was not in fact 10m back when the ball was tapped - do you acknowledge your error and advance the penalty? If not .... then why the inconsistency? The law is clear:

[LAWS]6.A.4 (a) The referee is the sole judge of fact and of Law during a match. The referee must apply fairly all the Laws of the Game in every match.[/LAWS]

[LAWS]6.A.6 REFEREE ALTERING A DECISION
The referee may alter a decision when a touch judge has raised the flag to signal touch.
The referee may alter a decision when an assistant referee has raised the flag to signal touch or an act of foul play.

6.A.7 REFEREE CONSULTING WITH OTHERS
(a) The referee may consult with assistant referees about matters relating to their duties, the Law relating to foul play or timekeeping and may request assistance related to other aspects of the referee’s duties including the adjudication of offside.[/LAWS]

If you trust the TJ (and I was a non-vested coach of another team) then go to the White scrum because a. it's the fairest call and b. the players know you got it wrong.

Insisting that you're right when you err puts you in a worse light than admitting you made a mistake. Referees aren't expected to be infallible but they are expected to be fair.

If your decision was obviously incorrect, this may be the correct call. But for something like a foot in touch, very few if any will be certain about the facts and the rest will perceive you as influenced by irrelevant external factors. You lose credibility, which you are unlikely to recover during a single match. There is no reason not to admit the mistake if you are certain you made one but it was not obvious to all; but you still start with the lineout which was awarded by the sole judge of fact and law before external influences made him doubt his judgement.