[Law] MARK - Is this a valid mark ?

[Decorily]

Or angels on a pinhead?

[LAWS]21.16
If the ball or ball-carrier touches a corner flag or corner flag post without otherwise being in touch or touch-in-goal, play continues unless the ball is grounded against the post..[/LAWS]
What if the ball bobbles back off the corner flat post? Still okay for calling a Mark! ?

Well if it would be good enough to award a try from then I would also award the mark!

Edit. Oops...

 

[crossref]

If the ball hits the cross bar , of course, it's dead (6.9.f)
epper:

 

[Dickie E]

It's 2019, taff, we have to finally put the 2017 Law Book behind us now..

I don't think we can do that.

If a ball is caught directly from
a. a kick off, or
b. a penalty kick
and a resulting unsuccesful maul occurs, 2019 suggests that the scrum feed would go to the catching team in both cases. Is that how we would ref it?

 

[Dickie E]

If the ball hits the cross bar , of course, it's dead (6.9.f)
epper:

I'll remember that next a penalty shot at goal hits the x-bar before going over

 

[Marc Wakeham]

But you might bobble it backwards into a post?

That would not be a knock on then would it!

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Can't believe the number of players I come across who don't understand that they have to call for the mark simultaneously when catching, or bobbling the ball.

 

[Decorily]

Can't believe the number of players I come across who don't understand that they have to call for the mark simultaneously when catching, or bobbling the ball.

If they don't call for it and signal with a bent arm do you still award it?

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

No. There's never enough crowd noise in my games for me not to here a mark being called.
Catching a ball and then bending an arm is not simultaneous.
I've seen them do it when their teammates shout at them to call a mark.
I say play on

 

[Decorily]

No. There's never enough crowd noise in my games for me not to here a mark being called.
Catching a ball and then bending an arm is not simultaneous.
I've seen them do it when their teammates shout at them to call a mark.
I say play on

No empathy there then!!

 

[crossref]

No. There's never enough crowd noise in my games for me not to here a mark being called.
Catching a ball and then bending an arm is not simultaneous.
I've seen them do it when their teammates shout at them to call a mark.
I say play on

For me , if they catch the ball and claim a mark .. it's a mark .
Not sure why you would disallow it ?

 

[leaguerefaus]

Disallowing a mark because the call / signal is slightly later than 'simultaneous' reeks of 'gotcha' refereeing, particularly in grass roots games, and particularly if there's no pressure around the catcher.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

Sorry guys, that doesn't sound right. I'm not that harsh honest.
I'm talking about a "significant" time delay which is clearly an afterthought when told by colleagues
I also get mark called when the ball is meters away in the air. What about that?

 

[crossref]

Sorry guys, that doesn't sound right. I'm not that harsh honest.
I'm talking about a "significant" time delay which is clearly an afterthought when told by colleagues
I also get mark called when the ball is meters away in the air. What about that?

As long as he then catches it.. I'd give it

 

[tim White]

The bent arm signal is nothing to do with the player (it is for the ref to signify) -they are trying to prompt the ref, or the opposition.

Give a positive whistle/signal -or NO, PLAY ON! according to your judgement.

I think you will find most players know what the obligations are for a valid'Mark' -their opponents certainly do.

 

[crossref]

The bent arm is useful for players in stadium rugby where the ref may not be able to hear the shout over the noise

It's also useful in grass roots rugby where the ref might be, ahem, some distance away and his hearing not as sharp as it once was.

 

[Decorily]

It's also useful in grass roots rugby where the ref might be, ahem, some distance away and his hearing not as sharp as it once was.

Yes. ..but the bent arm isn't much good if the Refs eyesight isn't what it used to be either!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Phil E]

I am not convinced that a bobbled catch can now claim a Mark, but have asked the question of laws@RFU.com
Let's see what they say in reply?

So I got a reply from laws@rfu.com and will now referee accordingly.

Question

The phrase "Clean Catch" has been removed from the 2018 and 2019 law books in Law 17.
Does this mean that a bobbled catch can now claim a Mark, as long as it is caught without touching the floor or another player?

Answer

As you indicate the law books have been simplified and content reduced, but the substance of the laws have not changed. However that does leave a few challenges around interpretation.

For the question you pose, where a player juggles the ball as they catch it. Provided the player retains control and possession of the ball, as you describe then this is fine.

 

[crossref]

It's a lovely Orwellian answer , bobbling is ok , bobbling has always been ok

Phil , are you going to check all the other changes with RFU Laws ? That will be fun

 

[Marc Wakeham]

So I got a reply from laws@rfu.com and will now referee accordingly.

Question
The phrase "Clean Catch" has been removed from the 2018 and 2019 law books in Law 17.
Does this mean that a bobbled catch can now claim a Mark, as long as it is caught without touching the floor or another player?





Answer
As you indicate the law books have been simplified and content reduced, but the substance of the laws have not changed. However that does leave a few challenges around interpretation.

For the question you pose, where a player juggles the ball as they catch it. Provided the player retains control and possession of the ball, as you describe then this is fine.

Thank you Phil.
As an aside, that is an interesting bit in bold!