[Law] More new Laws?

[didds]

New Law could have said
An arriving player who is on their feet may use their hands to pick up the ball provided they do so before an opposition player binds onto them.

Binds - or contacts?

the existing/"old" law only required a player from each team in contact over the ball to form the ruck. No need to bind.

didds

 

[ChrisR]

Law 20.5 & 20.5 (d) 5
No signal from referee. The scrum-half must throw the ball in straight, but is allowed to align their shoulder on the middle line of the scrum, therefore allowing them to stand a shoulder width towards their own side of the middle line.
Rationale: To promote scrum stability, a fair contest for possession while also giving the advantage to the team throwing in.

This one is a head scratcher for me. Why? What needed to be fixed? How does the game get better?

The SH is now the arbiter of straight, stable & stationary?

So someone in the front row has to wave a foot about as the ball is fed squint?

The "Rationale" is truly _________ ? Fill in the blank.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Isn't that option #2, the midpoint of the tackle? What would be the visual reference?

Same visual reference as the tackle gate

If the Blue jackler gets there first, the light green line is Green's offside line

If the Green jackler gets there first, the light blue line is Blue's offside line

 

[Ian_Cook]

Law 20.5 & 20.5 (d) 5
No signal from referee. The scrum-half must throw the ball in straight, but is allowed to align their shoulder on the middle line of the scrum, therefore allowing them to stand a shoulder width towards their own side of the middle line.
Rationale: To promote scrum stability, a fair contest for possession while also giving the advantage to the team throwing in.

This one is a head scratcher for me. Why? What needed to be fixed? How does the game get better?

The SH is now the arbiter of straight, stable & stationary?

Yep, just like he was for 100 years before this "Yes 9" nonsense started. Finally, WR have realised it was a bad idea

The person in the best position know when the hooker is confident that the scrum is stable and steady enough for the hooker to hook the ball is... wait for it, the hooker!!

Only nine people on the field need to know when the ball is coming in, they all have single digits on their jerseys and the referee isn't one of them

 

[didds]

Only nine people on the field need to know when the ball is coming in, they all have single digits on their jerseys and the referee isn't one of them

Unless of course he is a substitute. ;-)

I'll get me coat

didds

 

[VM75]

Yep. But that wasn't my question.

My question is what happens to the offside line when a previously engaged ruck player (o/s = hind feet) disappears leaving no teammates either (and thus no hindfoot). Does the offside line remain where it WAS or the now closest point to the ruck (possibly the ball carrier tackled onto the ground ) ? And if the formerthat means any defender joining the ruck has to be offside to do so ie be in fornt of the offside line through the now disappeared hind foot.

Now - I'd say common sense must mean the offside line moves forward when the jackler leaves. But life has shown me that what i think is common sense is not always shared by others (especially those further up the pyramid!)

So I am intrested in what others think should happen here.

didds

I'm picturing an offside line that starts at the HMPart of whatever Ruck-thingy we are looking at OR evolves through a successful clearout & replacement player.

If your ruck-creator has lost his status [by being rucked off] then in my then you've lost your offsideline & all players need to adjust.

any good?

 

[didds]

its the only logical call i would agree aka common sense - see above though!

didds

 

[VM75]

Binds - or contacts?

the existing/"old" law only required a player from each team in contact over the ball to form the ruck. No need to bind.

didds

Granted, But my amendment was of course a suggestion.

IMO, this was a golden [wasted] opportunity to clarify that for this new mono-ruck scenario a defender who leans forward & touches with his little finger ISNT a bonafide ruck participant & hasn't closed the first arrivers opportunity to reach down & then pick up the ball through such a minor contact.

 

[ChrisR]

Same visual reference as the tackle gate

If the Blue jackler gets there first, the light green line is Green's offside line

If the Green jackler gets there first, the light blue line is Blue's offside line

Which corresponds to "rearmost body part of the opponent(s)". That would be the visual reference I'd be looking for.

 

[Phil E]

Official guidance sent out by RFU Match Officials Department.

View attachment RFU Global Law Trials.pdf

 

[didds]

Thanks for that Phil. Do you know if this is OK to disseminate to our coaches? Or even more generally?


didds

 

[Phil E]

Thanks for that Phil. Do you know if this is OK to disseminate to our coaches? Or even more generally?


didds

Hi Didds

Yes the email says "to the wider game" so I take that to mean coaches and players.

Dear All,
Please find attached Send Out No.1 for season 2017-18, I would be grateful if you could kindly action and disseminate the information to all members within your Society and the wider game.
Should you have any questions in relation to law clarifications or changes, please contact our dedicated e-mail service: Laws@rfu.com

Kind regards

Michael D Patz
RFU Match Official Development Manager

 

[didds]

and those do cover what we've been discussing wrt 12 v 13 matches and uncontested scrums.

So well done the RFU for covering this. Whether it will get in front of everybody that needs to see it is another thing (nothing changes

didds

 

[TheBFG]

Been away for a week or 2 so not sure if this has been covered, but asking this for a pedantic coach (shock!) Tried to say, it's not an issue at our/his level, but he thinks a problem?

Law 20 Striking after the throw-in.
Once the ball touches the ground in the tunnel, any front row player may use either foot to try to win possession of the ball. One player from the team who put the ball in must strike for the ball.
Sanction: Free-kick

What happens if the putting in side can't/doesn't strike (I notice it doesn't say hook, why?)?

 

[didds]

What happens if the putting in side can't/doesn't strike (I notice it doesn't say hook, why?)?

is "hook" defined in the laws?

I would suggest that it doesn;t say hook because if the ball bobbled arond in the tunnel and somebody drags it back with the bottom of their boot, "we" don;t want them being pinged because they didn't "hook" the ball, so we end up with neither side now trying to win it!

didds

 

[didds]

Been away for a week or 2 so not sure if this has been covered, but asking this for a pedantic coach (shock!) Tried to say, it's not an issue at our/his level, but he thinks a problem?

Law 20 Striking after the throw-in.
Once the ball touches the ground in the tunnel, any front row player may use either foot to try to win possession of the ball. One player from the team who put the ball in must strike for the ball.
Sanction: Free-kick

What happens if the putting in side can't/doesn't strike ?

see the quote you provided.

"Sanction: Free-kick"

didds

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

and those do cover what we've been discussing wrt 12 v 13 matches and uncontested scrums.

So well done the RFU for covering this. Whether it will get in front of everybody that needs to see it is another thing (nothing changes

didds

I wonder if I'll get an award for pointing it out first? :shrug:

 

[TheBFG]

see the quote you provided.

"Sanction: Free-kick"

didds

So the ball goes in and sits in the tunnel as the putting in FR are unable to "strike for the ball". That's a FK for "failing to strike"????

 

[Dave Sherwin]

The BFG, I've been fortunate enough to discuss these changes with a number of the refs who worked in the Americas Rugby Championship - one of the competitions in which these new laws were trialled - and can confirm that was the approach. The new alignment of the scrum half should minimize the risk of this, however.

 

[Ciaran Trainor]

The new alignment of the scrum half should minimize the risk of this, however ��
A great way of saying that the powers that be have authorised feeding against the wishes of the majority who still believe in a fair contest for the ball.