[CLUB RUGBY] 'Neutral' TMOs in the Pro12

[thepercy]

when the TMO is in a van, I am betting there is a cable trailed across the car park that connects him to the TV feed, and allows convesation with the techniciaon

if the TMO is 1000s of miles away the cable need to be replaced by ... the internet ...

obviously it's doable. I guess there are risks of connection being dropped - - the TMO wouldn't want to be literally at home, sharing the WiFI with the kids ...

It could be at PRO12 HQ. The head of referees, or who ever, same person for all games, along with a team of experts, from each country (to appease those making accusations of bias), perhaps retired officials, not fit enough for on pitch, could do the job.

 

[Pegleg]

Exactly didds!

 

[SimonSmith]

Bryan Arciero, previously of this parish, will tell you of the time he had to resort to using a cell phone to communicate with a referee.

At a WR international.

 

[Shelflife]

Sadly I do not think it is without foundation.

Are you suggesting that some of the Pro 12 officials are crooked ?

 

[Pegleg]

I am saying that a numner of officialls in the Pro 12 are of a standard far lower that should be expected and are easily pressured by the people above them. When the same employer controls both the poacher and the gamekeeper there is a conflict of interests.

 

[crossref]

I am saying that a numner of officialls in the Pro 12 are of a standard far lower that should be expected and are easily pressured by the people above them. When the same employer controls both the poacher and the gamekeeper there is a conflict of interests.

I think that pegleg puts his finger on the real problem -- I am pretty relaxed about nationality, I don't really think it's a big deal if the referee is from the same country as one of the teams. After all we don't worry about a premiership referee coming from the same town as one of the clubs.

But I am worried about who employs the referee.. especially if its the same outfit who employ all the players .

it's very hard indeed to be completely free of pressures placed on you by your employers.

 

[Pegleg]

And that is what we have in the Pro 12!

 

[collybs]

It's a pity that they can't have neutral refs though.

 

[DocY]

It's a pity that they can't have neutral refs though.

A lack of quality refs is the problem, generally. We'd be worse off if we started promoting neutral referees who aren't up to the job.

There's what, one Italian and I can't think of any Scottish refs (though I expect that just my memory) leaving 4-5 matches a week to be covered by Welsh or Irish referees, whose teams make up 2/3 of the league - bound to be a clash somewhere.

 

[Pegleg]

A lack of quality refs is the problem, generally. We'd be worse off if we started promoting neutral referees who aren't up to the job.

There's what, one Italian and I can't think of any Scottish refs (though I expect that just my memory) leaving 4-5 matches a week to be covered by Welsh or Irish referees, whose teams make up 2/3 of the league - bound to be a clash somewhere.

Sadly we have promoted refs who are out of their depth. But the shortage of quality is crippling. An "exchange" with England would not work. They'd say: "No thanks!"

 

[DocY]

Sadly we have promoted refs who are out of their depth. But the shortage of quality is crippling. An "exchange" with England would not work. They'd say: "No thanks!"

I'd not heard that suggested - I expect everyone realises the RFU might use more colourful language than that!

I heard there was a suggestion of paying the RFU, but when figures were mentioned the Pro12 chiefs decided it wasn't that much of a problem.

 

[crossref]

Sadly we have promoted refs who are out of their depth. But the shortage of quality is crippling. An "exchange" with England would not work. They'd say: "No thanks!"

economics would predict that Italian and Scottish unions would poach some top quality refs from elsewhere (england, southern hemisphre)

 

[DocY]

economics would predict that Italian and Scottish unions would poach some top quality refs from elsewhere (england, southern hemisphre)

That's a good point! SH players are coming up here to play; why not referees? Surely they have the same financial incentives without the drawbacks.

 

[Camquin]

I am not sure they would qualify for a work permit.
But that would not stop a French referee - though that might change soon.

 

[DocY]

I am not sure they would qualify for a work permit.
But that would not stop a French referee - though that might change soon.

More so than for players? I'm not disbelieving you, it's just something I know very little about.

I don't expect the pay would be any better for French referees - and you'd have language and weather problems to contend with.

 

[Pegleg]

economics would predict that Italian and Scottish unions would poach some top quality refs from elsewhere (england, southern hemisphre)

Economics would suggest that to be highly unlikely, given the funding in both unions.

 

[L'irlandais]

More so than for players? I'm not disbelieving you, it's just something I know very little about.

I don't expect the pay would be any better for French referees - and you'd have language and weather problems to contend with.

Guys, out of 3,275 referees in France, there are only 4 professional referees. (Plus 5 semi-pro refs.). The rest get mileage and a small consideration per match.
Source : in French. The link has details of amateur refs earnings, for those interested.
The most a pro ref can hope to earn is €60k a year, most earn less. Or course if they are lucky enough to get a European cup or Six nations match they can increase their earnings.
Football refs earn less in monthly salary, but get more bonuses per match. So they earn on average €80k a year.

If I can manage to ref a game in French, I suspect your average French ref would fair well in Scotland. The weather here isn't much better most of the year, and many French people have fond memories of the auld alliance.

Not sure, either of the Scottish or Italian Unions would be happy to pay mileage, nor accomadation for "better" quality refs from the other Pro12 Unions, but who knows. Stranger things have happened...

 

[Camquin]

Because the UK regulations allow for "elite sportsperson or qualified coach recognised by your sport’s governing body as internationally established at the highest level".

I am not sure if that would apply to a referee.

 

[L'irlandais]

I am not sure if it is a problem just now. Certain conditions apply if you are temporarily sent by your employer to carry out your work in another Member State as a posted worker. But nothing that would stop a Pro referee, reffin' a match in the UK.

- - - Updated - - -The UK is still subject to EU law for the foreseeable future.

 

[crossref]

I don't think you would have to pay very much to poach a ref, if you wanted one