[CLUB RUGBY] 'Neutral' TMOs in the Pro12

[SimonSmith]

Guys, out of 3,275 referees in France, there are only 4 professional referees. (Plus 5 semi-pro refs.). The rest get mileage and a small consideration per match.
Source : in French. The link has details of amateur refs earnings, for those interested.
The most a pro ref can hope to earn is €60k a year, most earn less. Or course if they are lucky enough to get a European cup or Six nations match they can increase their earnings.
Football refs earn less in monthly salary, but get more bonuses per match. So they earn on average €80k a year.

If I can manage to ref a game in French, I suspect your average French ref would fair well in Scotland. The weather here isn't much better most of the year, and many French people have fond memories of the auld alliance.

Not sure, either of the Scottish or Italian Unions would be happy to pay mileage, nor accomadation for "better" quality refs from the other Pro12 Unions, but who knows. Stranger things have happened...

I can test that this weekend as M. Cyril Lafon has moved to my parish

 

[SimonSmith]

There is also an assumption here of employee status, as opposed to contractor status, which gives certain tax breaks

 

[L'irlandais]

I can test that this weekend as M. Cyril Lafon has moved to my parish

You got the cream of the crop, Best wishes from France.

Reminds me of this unfinished discussion ; remind him that during a game, "il n'y a pas 36 choses à dire."
(Roughly translates as -Whistle + arm signal (optional smile) Universally understood by players of a certain caliber.)

 

[Pegleg]

I'd not heard that suggested - I expect everyone realises the RFU might use more colourful language than that!

I heard there was a suggestion of paying the RFU, but when figures were mentioned the Pro12 chiefs decided it wasn't that much of a problem.

Whe've had the odd exchange over the years, particularly in the Welsh premiership for some reason. I remember the first time I saw Dave Rose, I think it at Cardiff. He was head and shoulders above any of the Welsh guys (Nigel excepted of course) at the time. I've seen some poor exchange guys too, one did not call "CTPS" all afternoon. The odd poor one is balanced out by the general better standard the english enjoy.

 

[Balones]

Pegleg
"Particularly in th Welsh Premiership"
I think it is to do with providing comparable experience in terms of match officials. All National Panel games have teams of three with suitable comms and videoing of games. I once observed a now prominent Welsh referee when he came to do a NL1 game and he had never used AR comms or much experience of working with appointed active ARs yet he had done numerous games at the league below premiership. The refs that come to do premiership games are likely to have had numerous years with teams of three so may have an advantage. But at the same time the premiership might have NL1 refs appointed whi might not be as capable as the Championship refs.

 

[collybs]

Surely the question is "Why haven't Scotland & Italy got enough good refs?" - is it because they do not have a good enough training system or is it because they can not attract enough people to referee. Either way something should be done to improve the situation.

 

[Balones]

Training apart, I think it is also partially due to having sustained access to the appropriate quality/level of game. To keep referees happy in Scotland and Wales (and Italy?) I believe there is a tendency to spread such games around.

 

[SimonSmith]

You got the cream of the crop, Best wishes from France.

Reminds me of this unfinished discussion ; remind him that during a game, "il n'y a pas 36 choses à dire."
(Roughly translates as -Whistle + arm signal (optional smile) Universally understood by players of a certain caliber.)

He is a thoroughly nice, and incredibly smart, man. They don't hand oit fellowships at UVA to idiots.

He makes refereeing look ridiculously easy, and like he's working in a different time to the players. SO much time - he's an oasis of calm in a frenetic maelstrom.

And a telling point. Very occasionally my Society hosts local high grade referees who are trying to get o the NP. Young, fast, and on a personal level, Grade A ******s who either patronize the local peons or ignore them altogether. My new friend came in and was just a regular guy. Chatted crap, helpful ideas for others, philosophy of refereeing. Really, really nice guy.

 

[crossref]

Training apart, I think it is also partially due to having sustained access to the appropriate quality/level of game. To keep referees happy in Scotland and Wales (and Italy?) I believe there is a tendency to spread such games around.

this is the point - if we allow that the pro12 is equivalent standard of rugby to the Premiership, then this implies that Wales+Scotland+Ireland+Italy TOGETHER will need and will have about the same number of pro12/premieship level refs as the RFU needs on its own.

 

[Camquin]

How many refs are there in Scotland.
According to wikipedia there are 160 teams in the eight levels of the main pyramid - some of those are second XVs and a further 102 in the reserve league and 20 or so University sides.

Or roughly the same number as Yorkshire.

Which is about right given the population. Scotland, Wales and Ireland have total population of about 14m or a quarter of that of England.

Now someone from NZ is going to point out they produce plenty of refs, but they have over 500 clubs It is a different culture.

 

[L'irlandais]

Well Simon,
Assuming his fellowship is for a year, I hope this Frenchman is in the middle, many's a time during the coming season.

 

[Taff]

TMOs are, normally, sat in a van watching TV feeds. At least that is the norm in the Pro 12. So they get feeds from the TV company. I can't see how that would be different if they were sat at an office somewhere miles away from the game.

I'm not that technical, but would there be a time-lag?

 

[Camquin]

About the same as on a phone call.
Do you notice the time lag on a call from Scotland to Rome.