[Mini/Midi] New age grade Law Variations trial in Scotland

[Jolly Roger]

New age grade Law Variations are being introduced in Scotland as a trial this season.
These are much simplified and, I believe,bring Scottish rugbymore in line with the rest of the UK in terms of line out lifting and competition. No maul at U14 is also a change.

I know there was a previous thread where National AGLVs were posted. I have searched but I cannot find it.

Link to page on SRU website
http://www.scottishrugby.org/news/18/07/06/scottish-rugby-issue-more-detail-age-grade-law-variations


Link to AGLV trials
http://www.scottishrugby.org/sites/default/files/editor/docs/aglv_national_trials_2018-19.pdf

 

[damo]

The U14 laws seem very restrictive to my eyes. They have tackling at waist and below only, uncontested lineouts and no mauls.

I don't think that is helpful in preparing players to play at higher grades.

 

[crossref]

It also, to me, does not chime with what 14 year olds want to get out of rugby.

 

[didds]

I'm intrigued by "no maul" stuff... I can see how it wold be asy enough to implement at a lineout where the set up is somewhat static, but in open play how does a player caught upright transfer the ball if his arms are trapped etc - must he just let go of it?

ta

didds

 

[damo]

To expand upon my earlier post, I think the U14 rules in particular are well intentioned but will have a detrimental effect. I fear that these rules will reduce injuries at the U14 level but increase them when players move to U15 and open level grades.

In my view, players at 13 and 14 should be learning the game so that they develop proper technique and give their bodies the ability to withstand the rigors of rugby. By denying tackles above the waist, lifting in lineout, mails and proper scrums, I fear these players will be I'll equipped to handle the higher grades when players are bigger, stronger and faster.

I feel like this could result in more injuries and less able rugby players in the U15 - U18 levels.

 

[Rich_NL]

Lifting is a fairly isolated, static skill: I don't think starting at 15 is going to increase any injuries. The rest are dynamic skills and I'd agree.

 

[didds]

I don't really have a view to a no maul idea for U14s - its more a logistical "concern" as to how it actually works in reality that intrigues me. However, wrt lifting (historically) in England this didn't occur until U16 - and I didn't perceive any issues with moving onwards from that once basic techniques were learned in early U16 year. TBH, lineouts in my view at age groups are pretty much a shambles anyway and its long been a bug bear of mine. For perhaps some understandable reasons many coaches seemed unclear/scared to coach them particularly or training time never got enough time to deal with them. I lost count of the number of times as an invited coach with a youth squad I'd ask eg an U14 squad what they lineout calls and basic strategies were to be met with a blank look, or "we just throw it in and try and catch it where it lands". That's not a dig ant any coaches - its just what we have/had. There would be no point in introducing lifting to a squad that has no basic systems - these type of lineouts don;t have throwers that can throw straight, weighted, to jumpers that JUMP, let alone time the two together.

Of late, in England, lineouts at youth have undergone a bit of a change - now uncontested lifting is allowed at U15 following U14 uncontested non lifting. I'm not convinced U14 non contested lifted lineouts do actually achieve much wrt development - I see/saw a lot of throwing to a non jumper catcher TBH, or a jumper that hardly gets off the ground. [ * what it does do is get the game flowing so as a restart it is a success, not getting bogged down in a morass of sloppy lineouts ending up up as scrummages which end up as FKs which end up as lineouts while the other 6 backs stand around watching, as was not untypical at U13 a few years ago.]

I'd be really interested in hearing the experiences of Welsh coaches (for example) where AIUI lifting has been allowed from U13 onwards [ a reason the RFU regs didn't provide for this was a belief that U13s didn't have the body strength to lift anybody safely etc - Wales would presumably disprove that ].

So in short, Im not peronally of the belief that non lifting until U15 etc is detrimental to that skill/technaiue. I am however of the belief that requisite skjills such as throwing and jumping are at best glossed over and at worst deliberately ignored until the mid teen years, when all of a sudden many single skills are suddenl;y required to make one system now work smoothly.

didds

 

[Marc Wakeham]

In Wales, U13 lineouts are uncotested with lifting being allowed. The idea being they develop the lifting skill without the concern of the contest. I don't ref a lot of Age grade stuff these days in Wales but I understand that some choose not to lift However, I understand it works quite well overall.

 

[crossref]

We live on a small and crowded island, it's ridiculous that English , Welsh and Scottish children play different Laws. ...

 

[didds]

2 x NGBs - 3 x viewpoints.

How much cross border competition actually occurs?

Do we have the same "concerns" over east Kent clubs versus North West France clubs - does that happen more/less than West Country/Wales, North/Scottish Borders?

didds

 

[didds]

I'd be more bothered if the three unions involved don;t share experiences etc in order to get best fit for all ...

And maybe its down to insurance companies' differing perspectives on what they will underwrite?

didds

 

[crossref]

It's down to politics. Each union has the power to set age group Laws.
. So they do.

Same as every merit table in the land can set its own rules on subs and man off .. so they do.

Still , we have had one big achievement recently in England. Kids now play the same laws on Saturday at school as they play on Sunday with their club.

 

[Dickie E]

I'm intrigued by "no maul" stuff... I can see how it wold be asy enough to implement at a lineout where the set up is somewhat static, but in open play how does a player caught upright transfer the ball if his arms are trapped etc - must he just let go of it?

ta

didds

I, too, am interested in how this gets managed

 

[Pinky]

It used to be the case that there was no distinction in the breakdown for age grade and it as tap and pass to opposition if the ball did not come out, ie turnover for any ruck/maul. I'll need to have a detailed look at this - I suspect it will be covered at our start of season referees training next month.

 

[Dan_A]

So, we had an interesting experience of all this in the season just ended. We are an u13 team in RFU land, so have been playing a free pass all season instead of lineouts. Our end of season tour was to South Wales. On the Saturday we came back over the border to play an English team so still free passes instead of lineouts. On the Sunday we played a Cardiff based team so lifted but uncontested lineouts. I think we spent about an hour with our forwards prior to the Sunday fixture and we won all our own ball. We just kept it very simple with two static jumpers and a fair bit of throwing in practice. Since it is uncontested, the players get to practice the lift and throw elements in relative safety. I think the WRU version works just fine.

As a side issue, all season long we have had to ask referees in the pre-match how they would handle a kick to touch from a restart after an infringement. The U13 regs in England refer to these restarts being 'free kicks' so , in theory the infringing team should get the free pass at the point the ball cross touch. But loads of referees decided that the kick should be treated as a penalty, and awarded the free pass to the non-infringing team. All very confusing!

 

[Marc Wakeham]

They are free kicks you are correct they should not be treated as penalties

 

[OB..]

Same as every merit table in the land can set its own rules on subs and man off .. so they do.

I have been at various RFU-run meetings for merit table organisers. I don't know about others, but we certainly looked at how it was done elsewhere and incorporated several ideas into our system. I don't see a need for "one-size-fits-all" since the circumstances can be very different.

 

[crossref]

I have been at various RFU-run meetings for merit table organisers. I don't know about others, but we certainly looked at how it was done elsewhere and incorporated several ideas into our system. I don't see a need for "one-size-fits-all" since the circumstances can be very different.

Perhaps we could develop three sizes fits all ?
The cost of the current approach is frequent mistakes as the rules are incredibly complicated with endless variations and in my experience few players , referees or even league organisers are able to keep up.

But i only mention it as an example ...it not as important as all playing the same Law s, which is what I am advocating for British age group rugby

 

[didds]

I guess to implement that you'd need a British NGB with possibly a single insurer....

didds

 

[Camquin]

The basic insurance cover provided by the RFu is very basic.
I am not sure how much the insurers get involved in the specifics of when lifting in a lineout is introduced.
But I could be wrong.