[Mini/Midi] New age grade Law Variations trial in Scotland

didds

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.It was merely one possibility agreed camquin :)

didds
 

crossref


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The three unions involved will never agree to standardise their age grade rules.
So far as I know it's never even been suggested.
Any more than would Middlesex and Surrey agree to use the same man off rules . I don't think it's ever been suggested
 

Dan_A

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When I did the permission to tour paperwork with out County office, I specifically included the fact that we were playing to WRU age group rules in the risk assessment, with a note about the lineouts. They duly signed off as expected but I figured this might help in the event of any potential insurance issue.
 

crossref


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Their is such a lot of confusion about insurance

The RFU insurance covers all catastrophic injuries suffered playing rugby. It doesn't matter if people are negligent or using the wrong laws .. the injured person is still covered . That is the point of insurance

If there was negligence the insurance company might come after you to recover the costs, but that is separate. The person with the catastrophic injury is covered by the insurance
 

Dan_A

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Their is such a lot of confusion about insurance

The RFU insurance covers all catastrophic injuries suffered playing rugby. It doesn't matter if people are negligent or using the wrong laws .. the injured person is still covered . That is the point of insurance

If there was negligence the insurance company might come after you to recover the costs, but that is separate. The person with the catastrophic injury is covered by the insurance

Yep, understood, just want to make sure that tour leaders and/or our club would not be facing off with the insurance company. It would be harder for them to prove negligence if the County office (and therefore RFU) have signed off on that specific risk.
 

crossref


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Yes, it's a good idea not to be negligent .
But the primary reason why you would avoid negligence is because you want to keep your players safe, and avoid any injury in the first place. Not so much to CYA in the resulting court cases

In other words your train of thought should be about whether your boys can safely lift.
 

Dan_A

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Yes, it's a good idea not to be negligent .
But the primary reason why you would avoid negligence is because you want to keep your players safe, and avoid any injury in the first place. Not so much to CYA in the resulting court cases

In other words your train of thought should be about whether your boys can safely lift.

Yes, absolutely. We did a risk assessment. We identified which players could be exposed to the lifting. We had qualified coaches do a couple of sessions with them. We briefed the (Welsh) referee that the boys hadn't been lifting back home yet and that at any signs of an issue we would just stop lifting. For what it's worth I am a RFU level 1 coach and qualified first aider, so you're preaching to the converted!!
 

didds

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Good points CR.

Bottom line however is that wrt the RFU's insurers at least, the requirement is for coaches etc to follow the AG regs.

RFU AG regs don't permit lifted lineouts until U15. (notwithstanding one off differences as per the above)

the crux here is whether the insurers (Marsh?) have decided that lifted lineouts below U15 are not an item they wish to insure, or whether its the RFU that have decreed no such lifting. which still binds coaches etc to those regs etc. wrt what is covered or not ie whether they may get chased etc.

So whatever the reasons for the REFU not allowing lifting below U15 its either/or/both

* RFU don't want it
* Insurers don't want it.

didds
 
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crossref


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You are required to follow the Laws
But if you don't , it doesn't invalidate the insurance. The kid with the injury still gets a pay out .

It does expose you to legal claims against you
 

didds

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which is exactly what I said of course.

didds
 

Foggy-Balla

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I'm just about to move up to coaching/refereeing U13s as my lad moves and we have played in a lot of the larger tournaments against Welsh sides, my Club being in the Home Counties.
 

crossref


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My son's team played Welsh sides, on tour and at tournaments
 

Marc Wakeham


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Level 2
Good points CR.

Bottom line however is that wrt the RFU's insurers at least, the requirement is for coaches etc to follow the AG regs.

RFU AG regs don't permit lifted lineouts until U15. (notwithstanding one off differences as per the above)

the crux here is whether the insurers (Marsh?) have decided that lifted lineouts below U15 are not an item they wish to insure, or whether its the RFU that have decreed no such lifting. which still binds coaches etc to those regs etc. wrt what is covered or not ie whether they may get chased etc.

So whatever the reasons for the REFU not allowing lifting below U15 its either/or/both

* RFU don't want it
* Insurers don't want it.

didds

When I ref (Age group rugby) in England, my WRU kinsurance does not cover me and I am licensed to referee WRU only. THe English structure insures me as a "club" referee. So, as far as my liability and the players I am covered.

I would imagine that eour clubs coming here would be covered under the WRU confirmation of the tour being under its insurance rather than the RFU's cover. I would imagring the RFU merely wishes to see the confirmation that the WRU are covering the tour.

As far as English refs are concerned you are not covered under WRU cover to ref in Wales (obviously this is not including the higher level appointments) and offers to referee should be declined unless you have something in writing from the English system to say that you are covered.)
 

crossref


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in reality it's more complex than that.

welsh children playing rugby in Wales will be covered by the WRU's catastrophic injury insurance, even if there is a rogue English ref in charge. That's the whole point of insurance : it covers them for all injuries, including those caused by negligent or rogue officials.

Now, having said that, the club who appointed him may well be laying themselves open to an action for making such a negligent appointment etc etc -- but the kids with the catastrophic injury will be get their payout.


(Rider -- of course Marc is quite correct to say that an English ref should get himself properly appointed if was invited to ref in Wales. The RFU have a permission to ref abroad form, and you'd want that, and you'd want to be on board with the WRU as well. I am not advcocating taking any risks or short cuts. It's just that when people say 'not covered' the situation in reality is more complicated)
 
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