[Golden Oldies] Nigel Owens on inclusive rugby.

[Not Kurt Weaver]

If IF can raise funds for his beliefs and position, can Aus Rugby do the same for its position so to fairly contest any legal action?

AR could ask Quantas for some legal help, pro bono of course.

I'm surprised AR would need legal help. I think the consensus from our rugbyrefs viewers is a no brainer.
One of our posters wrote something like - Stick a fork in him (IF) - he is done. By current US media standards, that is a racist statement. Thank goodness this didn't occur in US


From Wiki:

Financials
During the calendar years 2017 and 2018 Rugby Australia's total income was $267 million. Of that, sponsorship totalled $59 million and government grants totalled $29 million. Between 2017 and 2018, there was a fall in incomes for all major revenue categories, leaving a reduction in the total income of $30 million for 2018 compared with 2017.[22]

From NKW;

I see a disparity in funds also

 

[Dickie E]

A Stick a fork in him (IF) - he is done. By current US media standards, that is a racist statement. Thank goodness this didn't occur in US

how could that be interpreted as a racist statement?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

how could that be interpreted as a racist statement?

Sticking a fork in meat to see if it is done cooking. This could be construed to be IF and in south pacific culture the pig is important during celebration. This statement could be as a slant to SP culture or calling IF a pig or a piece of meat.

My real point is that our tolerant, inclusive friends need to practice careful statements before referring to someone else in a derogatory manner. Our tolerant, inclusive friends lose credibility using name calling and twisting text. I'm just doing it back to them to make a point.

 

[Dickie E]

Sticking a fork in meat to see if it is done cooking. This could be construed to be IF and in south pacific culture the pig is important during celebration. This statement could be as a slant to SP culture or calling IF a pig or a piece of meat.

My real point is that our tolerant, inclusive friends need to practice careful statements before referring to someone else in a derogatory manner. Our tolerant, inclusive friends lose credibility using name calling and twisting text. I'm just doing it back to them to make a point.

got it.

Likewise we often see the word "bigot" used by people who are quite bigotted themselves

a person who is intolerant towards those holding different opinions.

 

[Rich_NL]

My real point is that our tolerant, inclusive friends need to practice careful statements before referring to someone else in a derogatory manner. Our tolerant, inclusive friends lose credibility using name calling and twisting text. I'm just doing it back to them to make a point.

So you are hapy to lose credibility. Presumably you identify as intolerant and non-inclusive, then? Noted.

The Tolerance Paradox has been around for a long time. To be tolerant you have to not tolerate intolerance; this isn't an argument against tolerance, it's a refining of what one tolerates. It's not bigoted to be intolerant of those who think that other races should be exterminated, for example, or the word becomes meaningless.

 

[OB..]

So you are hapy to lose credibility. Presumably you identify as intolerant and non-inclusive, then? Noted.

The Tolerance Paradox has been around for a long time. To be tolerant you have to not tolerate intolerance; this isn't an argument against tolerance, it's a refining of what one tolerates. It's not bigoted to be intolerant of those who think that other races should be exterminated, for example, or the word becomes meaningless.

I don't find these semantic logic-chopping arguments very helpful.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Sticking a fork in meat to see if it is done cooking. This could be construed to be IF and in south pacific culture the pig is important during celebration. This statement could be as a slant to SP culture or calling IF a pig or a piece of meat.

My real point is that our tolerant, inclusive friends need to practice careful statements before referring to someone else in a derogatory manner. Our tolerant, inclusive friends lose credibility using name calling and twisting text. I'm just doing it back to them to make a point.

I follow American politics very closely, and what you are saying is rubbish!

The political use of the term "stick a fork in her, she's done" was originated by Will Durst of the Huffington Post. It was directed at Hillary Clinton when she was falling behind in the Democratic Primary for the 2008 US Presidential election.

"I’m not saying Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s historic presidential run is toast. Finished. Down the drain. Caput. Washed up. History. A memory. In the archives. Defunct. Extinct. Artifacto. Took a hike. Sleeping with the fishes. Part of the vast past tense. Joined the choir invisible. Totally obliterated. Entering Sidekick City. Sheer finito. Thoroughly through. Down goes Frasier. Swept away by the Tahiti Express. See ya: Wouldn’t want to be ya. So long and sayonara sweetheart. Became an ex- presidential run. Experiencing fossilization. Stick a fork in her—she’s done. Game over, man. Say bye."


"Stick a fork in her, she's done" has absolutely no racial overtones whatsoever!

 

[L'irlandais]

It’s been around a tad longer than that. Already heard it in January 1989 Last great American Whale. But even then it sounded like he was citing a well worn expression.

They say things are done for the majority
Don't believe half of what you see and none of what you hear
It's like what my painter friend Donald said to me
"Stick a fork in their ass and turn them over, they're done"

 

[Ian_Cook]

It’s been around a tad longer than that. Already heard it in January 1989 Last great American Whale. But even then it sounded like he was citing a well worn expression.

Perhaps you missed the bold part

"The political use of the term" and I am referring exclusively to US politics since NKW is inferring its a racist dogwhistle there... it is not!

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

I follow American politics very closely, and what you are saying is rubbish!

The political use of the term "stick a fork in her, she's done" was originated by Will Durst of the Huffington Post. It was directed at Hillary Clinton when she was falling behind in the Democratic Primary for the 2008 US Presidential election.

"I’m not saying Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton’s historic presidential run is toast. Finished. Down the drain. Caput. Washed up. History. A memory. In the archives. Defunct. Extinct. Artifacto. Took a hike. Sleeping with the fishes. Part of the vast past tense. Joined the choir invisible. Totally obliterated. Entering Sidekick City. Sheer finito. Thoroughly through. Down goes Frasier. Swept away by the Tahiti Express. See ya: Wouldn’t want to be ya. So long and sayonara sweetheart. Became an ex- presidential run. Experiencing fossilization. Stick a fork in her—she’s done. Game over, man. Say bye."


"Stick a fork in her, she's done" has absolutely no racial overtones whatsoever!

Hil aint Polynesian. IF is, isn't he?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

So you are hapy to lose credibility. Presumably you identify as intolerant and non-inclusive, then? Noted.
.

good twist on my post, you are proving my point. I spoke of tolerant. inclusive friends. I'm tolerating my friends and showing them their error. Hopefully, but doubtfully, my friends will become more careful so as not to offend

The Tolerance Paradox has been around for a long time. To be tolerant you have to not tolerate intolerance; this isn't an argument against tolerance, it's a refining of what one tolerates. It's not bigoted to be intolerant of those who think that other races should be exterminated, for example, or the word becomes meaningless.

Ta da, yes bigot is a meaningless word or self deprecating. Placing an adjective to it may make it more useful, but finding a better word to express your opinion may be the solution. Bigot is an easy word to use, til you think about it. Bigot is an intellectually lazy word

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

It's not bigoted to be intolerant of those who think that other races should be exterminated, for example, .

Oh yes it is. And in this case, for example, a bigot of Nazis is just fine.


So to use an adjective. An anti-Nazi bigot is just fine.


IF is an anti-homosexual getting into heaven if they do not repent bigot. Why?, I can only speculate, but I ain't gonna hate him. I think he is incorrectly informed. His brain is as vulnerable as anyone's.

 

[The Fat]

Wallabies have played 2 tests for 1W & 1L without IF and people are already saying Izzy who?
As far as his playing career goes he will be forgotten as quickly as yesterday’s newspaper.
His cousin has been let go from his job at a Catholic school for sprouting anti-catholic vitriol in line with Izzy’s dad’s church (“Christian beliefs”). Now I may be a dumb old b*****d, but I’m guessing that there would have been a reasonable number of Catholics, who identify as part of the Christian community, who would have contributed to Izzy’s fighting fund.
I wonder if Izzy’s dad has told his nephew to sue for unfair dismissal on the grounds of a violation of his religious freedom?
If the ACL wasn’t bankrolling Izzy, he would already be yesterday’s news with people realising that he was just a rugby player, employed by RA, using his profile to ear-bash the general public with his “fundamentalist” religious views.
The ACL are using IF to push their own agenda. Is IF’s case any different to his cousin’s? I don’t see the ACL jumping up and down and fundraising for the cousin.

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Lots for me to comment on. so all me to use the infamous red letters

Wallabies have played 2 tests for 1W & 1L without IF and people are already saying Izzy who?
Yeah, cause the Wallys are professional rugby players and there is 4 million more to be had
As far as his playing career goes he will be forgotten as quickly as yesterday’s newspaper. Tru dat
His cousin has been let go from his job at a Catholic school for sprouting anti-catholic vitriol in line with Izzy’s dad’s church (“Christian beliefs”). Now I may be a dumb old b*****d, but I’m guessing that there would have been a reasonable number of Catholics, who identify as part of the Christian community, who would have contributed to Izzy’s fighting fund. A fool and his money...
I wonder if Izzy’s dad has told his nephew to sue for unfair dismissal on the grounds of a violation of his religious freedom? Nope, no money to be had
If the ACL wasn’t bankrolling Izzy, he would already be yesterday’s news with people realising that he was just a rugby player, employed by RA, using his profile to ear-bash the general public with his “fundamentalist” religious views. Yeah, famous people lose their minds and think they are important i.e. Mike Jackson, Tom Cruise, Howard Hughes, hollywood. I suspect that is what happens when success comes to easily and at a young age, such as IF
The ACL are using IF to push their own agenda. Is IF’s case any different to his cousin’s? I don’t see the ACL jumping up and down and fundraising for the cousin.Yes, extremely different. RA is on the hook for 4 million. The Catholic Church is in Rome, just North of Sicily. I think Sicily will win.

Fat, Quality discussion on you part. THX

 

[L'irlandais]

Can’t help feeling you missed a couple of US Presidents off your list of famous people. Ronald Reagan and Donald Trump fit the lost their minds criteria quite well.

Elsewhere, it looks as the Christchurch attack has spawned a copycat attack in El Paso, I suspect his online justification is no longer visible, but odd that this sort of Redneck is even aware of countries outside the US.

Trump condemns the attack

. that I find contradictory, DT encourages Racial division (speaking of an invasion over the southern border) and he supports the NRA. (Even if only out of self interest) He must genuinely be Schizo, he certainly has a decreased ability to understand reality. I hope the shooter quotes Trump in his defence, as it will show how divisive the US President is. Words have meaning, and he needs to be held accountable for the consequences of his hateful words. Donald Trump is following in the footsteps of Hitler, a charismatic leader who doesn’t half spout a lot of non sense.

 

[Ian_Cook]

Hil aint Polynesian. IF is, isn't he?

Exactly!

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Exactly!

So, 'stick a fork in him/her - he/she is done' cannot be racist to Hillary because she it white, or this phrase is a well known figure of speech that cannot ever be misinterpreted intentionally.

 

[Lee Lifeson-Peart]

msfff

 

[L'irlandais]

msfff

That’s a whiteist comment if ever I saw one. Or do I mean whitest?

 

[Not Kurt Weaver]

Exactly!

Were the Tongans cannibals in the their history?

Maybe 'Stick a fork in him - he's done' is a slur