[Ruck] no more 1 man ruck ?? thoughts

[Dickie E]

this is from our GMGs:

View attachment 3753

the interesting bit is:

[LAWS]An arriving player can either create an offside line by being on feet and over the ball, or they may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate.[/LAWS]

so it's either/or. If a player arrives and goes for the ball, he isn't creating an offside line.

Is that how this is universally applied?

 

[OB..]

Perhaps I'll just stay away, and then you can have free reign to do whatever you like.

I'd rather you didn't. Your input has often been very valuable.

 

[crossref]

this is from our GMGs:

View attachment 3753

the interesting bit is:

[LAWS]An arriving player can either create an offside line by being on feet and over the ball, or they may use their hands to pick up the ball as long as this is immediate.[/LAWS]

so it's either/or. If a player arrives and goes for the ball, he isn't creating an offside line.

Is that how this is universally applied?

For me that's my understanding.
Of course either way it's still a tackle so people coming in to contest have to come through gate

 

[didds]

[LAWS]LAW 15 RUCK

11. Once a ruck has formed, no player may handle the ball unless they were able to get their
hands on the ball before the ruck formed and stay on their feet. [/LAWS]

Breakdown turnovers are difficult enough to get now. Without this, they would be impossible!

Whilst I do agree with Ian., a totally radical alternative might be to actually drive the opponents backwards and leave the ball behind oneself?

didds

 

[Elpablo73]

I think I need to get a new computer and internet connection, because I can't see this clarification on the World Rugby Site as all!!

Could one of you fine chaps send me the link?

 

[crossref]

It's not on the website yet, I am guessing that it has been distributed only by secret email

 

[Rich_NL]

Asking for advice from the more experienced: how do you let the players know the offside lines are formed? I've found shouting "offsides" to alert defenders to offside lines can be misconstrued by the attackers that they have a penalty advantage, and "ruck" is also potentially misleading.

 

[Dickie E]

Asking for advice from the more experienced: how do you let the players know the offside lines are formed? I've found shouting "offsides" to alert defenders to offside lines can be misconstrued by the attackers that they have a penalty advantage, and "ruck" is also potentially misleading.

I certainly wouldn't call "offsides".

"Ruck" or "ruck formed" would be my suggestion. Why is this potentially misleading?

Further, I wouldn't call anything unless I saw a need to do so (eg an Italian loitering with intent).

 

[didds]

"Ruck" or "ruck formed" would be my suggestion. Why is this potentially misleading?

Because if I've understood the above correctly its not a ruck - so players can stiull try and play the ball (from an onside position).

???

didds

 

[crossref]

I certainly wouldn't call "offsides".

"Ruck" or "ruck formed" would be my suggestion. Why is this potentially misleading?

Further, I wouldn't call anything unless I saw a need to do so (eg an Italian loitering with intent).

But the point of the clarification is that one person on his own DOESNT form a ruck. Only an offside line.
So it would be misleading to shout ruck, when there isn't one

 

[Dickie E]

Because if I've understood the above correctly its not a ruck - so players can stiull try and play the ball (from an onside position).

???

didds

OK - I've caught up.

I wouldn't see this as a big issue. Either it is a dynamic situation and very quickly turns into a ruck (most of the time) or it doesn't. If it doesn't, ref needs to scan and ensure offside lines are being adhered to.

Maybe "offsides" is the right call :holysheep:

 

[didds]

from the others posts, which I generally concur with, shouring "offsides" to illustrate offside lines are in place could easily be misheard as "offside" by the ball carrying team who then treat the next phase or so as a "free play" (for want of a better description) ie their subsequent action is a response to what they think you called.

I don;t have any easy answers either, and whatever it is needs to be pretty universal for obvious reasons.

here's a stab (which is rubbish!) - "LINES" ?



didds

 

[ChrisR]

I think it best to let the players figure it out and if a player looks to be encroaching then address him.

I still have some questions on this.

If the attacking support player arrives first with chest over the ball can he then move the ball back with his hand to be under his foot? Seems OK until contact with an opponent.

If the attacking support player arrives first with chest over the ball and pauses (slow count to three) can he then pick up the ball if the opponents don't contest? Also seems OK but doesn't fit 'immediately'.

If the defending support arrives first, gets hands on the ball but not lifted, if the opponents engage to form standard ruck does he have to release the ball? This requirement was in first law trial doc but seems to be omitted since.

If the defending support arrives first, gets hands on the ball and lifts it, has the ruck ended? If he then places the ball back on the ground (his side of the tackled player) can he then engage incoming attacking support players to form a new ruck?

 

[thepercy]

"Back"

"Last Foot"

 

[OB..]

"Stay onside"?

 

[chbg]

I think it best to let the players figure it out and if a player looks to be encroaching then address him.

This. Let those that have eyes see for themselves.

 

[Flish]

"Back Foot" is the call I tend to use, kids and adults, it seems to mostly remind them of where I need them to be

 

[Taff]

.... If the defending support arrives first, gets hands on the ball and lifts it, has the ruck ended? If he then places the ball back on the ground (his side of the tackled player) can he then engage incoming attacking support players to form a new ruck?

Isn't that effectively bringing the ball back into a Ruck though? :chin:

 

[ChrisR]

. . . and that's the $64K question. If the first defender lifts the ball over the body of the tackled player and places it between his feet has he ended the ruck? Would he then be obstructing or has he iniated a new ruck? Or is it the same ruck?

I think it's the same ruck and he's OK.

 

[didds]

In the interests of simplicity I agree with ChrisR, otherwise the world becomes more convoluted.

2ndary Q: if the jackler lifts the ball in what is otherwise a ruck but holds on to it - is it still a ruck or is it now a maul?

didds