No8 Pickup with uncontested scrum
- Thread starter Joe@trfc
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3 4 1 suggests that flankers actualy push on the outside of the props, but I agree that it is not explicitly stated.
Symetrically for me means that the No 8 has to bind on the two locks, and is not allowed to bind on one lock and one flanker as he would be allowed to do under full scrummaging law
Symetrically for me means that the No 8 has to bind on the two locks, and is not allowed to bind on one lock and one flanker as he would be allowed to do under full scrummaging law
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Answer to the Question:
There is nothing wrong with a No. 8 pick up at an uncontested Scrum in Adult Rugby.
There is nothing wrong with a No. 8 pick up at an uncontested Scrum in Adult Rugby.
I think the key thing is this
where my answer is 'yes' . That's to say: if the scrum was 3-4-0 and wheeled so that the flanker was at the rear, and the ball came to him and he picked it up, then yes of course I'd assume it was deliberate.
Perhaps I should express this differently and say:
- right both teams, there's no number eight, OK, you have to form up with second row and flankers
- remember no wheeling: if your scrum wheels so as to give your flanker a pick up, I'll assume it's deliberate wheel.
which comes to the same thing, better expressed
So you are saying that a player can’t bind half-way down the 2[SUP]nd[/SUP] row? What about a quarter? Where is the line? And if this tall flanker binds so that his feet are further back, can’t he be the hindmost player?
Alternative is to say that in a 3-4-0 formation, both flankers and the locks are the rear-most players…….
(For clarity, I would referee it such that in a 3-4-0 formation, there would be no pick. How I would manage this would depend on the players involved)
Alternative is to say that in a 3-4-0 formation, both flankers and the locks are the rear-most players…….
(For clarity, I would referee it such that in a 3-4-0 formation, there would be no pick. How I would manage this would depend on the players involved)
I guess it's a bit arcane, anyway. I've never had a team want to, or attempt a flanker pick up.
The issue that actually does come up, almost every time we reduce scrum numbers, is
- why can't they have eight in the scrum, the opponent has got the YC... but now they have a disadvantage of having to lose the 8, not fair.
- OK, then even if we have to have 7, why can't they pack down 3,3,1 ?
The issue that actually does come up, almost every time we reduce scrum numbers, is
- why can't they have eight in the scrum, the opponent has got the YC... but now they have a disadvantage of having to lose the 8, not fair.
- OK, then even if we have to have 7, why can't they pack down 3,3,1 ?
Strictly speaking the only requirement is to bind on a lock's body.
We have another grey area, and since there appears to be no high level ruling, surely each society ought to issue guidance to its own referees in order to get some sort of consistency locally at least.
OB - why is it grey?
Bind on a lock's body- could not be more clear.
It is only grey if you seek to infer additional requirements - If the flanker is bound on a locks body then he is legally bound. We must not infer additional requirements that are not there.
Bind on a lock's body- could not be more clear.
It is only grey if you seek to infer additional requirements - If the flanker is bound on a locks body then he is legally bound. We must not infer additional requirements that are not there.
The grey area was a reference to the debate about wheeling etc (it all but got delayed in posting and so ended up missing a chunk of context).
talbazar
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In U15 and U17, when I was a tinny #9, we use to bind the #6 on the lock's arse sometimes...
Hooker to hook the ball back towards the tunnel but behind prop's feet...
Little pop from SH to #6...
On a 5m scrum, try at least 70% of the time...
The only thing I use to do at that time was saying: "Excuse sir, mind coming on my side please?" (for the ref to see where the ball goes out)
Beer Hunter
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I think age grade regs are governed by home unions not by IRB laws.
In England it doesn't apply at Under 13 but at all ages below. It is covered by Regulation 15 8 i and ii.
See below
8. Scrums
(i) At Under 11 the scrum will be made up of five players from each team
– the front row (a row of three players, i.e. a prop on either side of the
hooker) and two locks forming the second row. The locks must bind to
each other using the inside arm, with the outside arm around the hips
(not between the legs) of the front row (props). Neither of the locks may
unbind to pick up the ball at the rear of the scrum but must remain
bound onto the scrum until the ball is carried or passed out by the scrum
half. Penalty: Penalty Kick.
RFU REGULATION 15 – AGE GRADE RUGBY APPENDIX 1-C 5
MIDI RUGBY
(UNDER 11 & UNDER 12)
15
Effective from 1 August 2011(ii) At Under 12 the scrum will be made up of six players from each team –
the front row (a row of three players, i.e. a prop on either side of the
hooker, two locks forming the second row and a back-row player who
shall bind between the two locks (3-2-1 formation). The locks must bind
to each other using the inside arm, with the outside arm around the hips
(not between the legs) of the front row (props). The back row player
must have their head between the hips of the second row bound with the
arms around the hips (not between the legs) of the second row (locks).
No player may unbind to pick up the ball at the rear of the scrum but
must remain bound onto the scrum until the ball is carried or passed out
by the scrum half. Penalty: Penalty Kick
In England it doesn't apply at Under 13 but at all ages below. It is covered by Regulation 15 8 i and ii.
See below
8. Scrums
(i) At Under 11 the scrum will be made up of five players from each team
– the front row (a row of three players, i.e. a prop on either side of the
hooker) and two locks forming the second row. The locks must bind to
each other using the inside arm, with the outside arm around the hips
(not between the legs) of the front row (props). Neither of the locks may
unbind to pick up the ball at the rear of the scrum but must remain
bound onto the scrum until the ball is carried or passed out by the scrum
half. Penalty: Penalty Kick.
RFU REGULATION 15 – AGE GRADE RUGBY APPENDIX 1-C 5
MIDI RUGBY
(UNDER 11 & UNDER 12)
15
Effective from 1 August 2011(ii) At Under 12 the scrum will be made up of six players from each team –
the front row (a row of three players, i.e. a prop on either side of the
hooker, two locks forming the second row and a back-row player who
shall bind between the two locks (3-2-1 formation). The locks must bind
to each other using the inside arm, with the outside arm around the hips
(not between the legs) of the front row (props). The back row player
must have their head between the hips of the second row bound with the
arms around the hips (not between the legs) of the second row (locks).
No player may unbind to pick up the ball at the rear of the scrum but
must remain bound onto the scrum until the ball is carried or passed out
by the scrum half. Penalty: Penalty Kick
Dickie E
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http://vicrefs.rugbynet.com.au/verve/_resources/Grade_Law_Variations_2011.pdf
this is a useful document put together by an enterprising colleague
this is a useful document put together by an enterprising colleague
Interesting to see that in Australia as well, the poor kids play under different laws at school from in their club (just as they do in england).