Northampton v Exeter - Tip tackle

[Scarlet Al]

Just before half time... Northampton number 8 looks to have spear tackled an opponent...

With the benefit of replays, JP Doyle made the decision himself and gave yellow... How come not a red?

 

[Taff]

Just before half time... Northampton number 8 looks to have spear tackled an opponent. With the benefit of replays, JP Doyle made the decision himself and gave yellow... How come not a red?

Was he "speared" or "dropped without regard for his safety" ? From memory, these were the only 2 situations where the IRB suggested a :norc: was compulsory. If it was neither of the above, the Memo (available in the Wiki section) said it was ok for the Ref to give a :noyc: + a PK or even just a PK.

I've recorded it and will be watching it later tonight with a glass of whiskey.

 

[OB..]

With the benefit of replays, JP Doyle made the decision himself and gave yellow.

How did he have access to replays?

 

[Andrew1974]

Only saw the last 30 mins or so of the match so missed the incident being dicussed.

The various commentators were discussing the incident during hte second half and they seemed to be fairly split in their opinions at to whether it was red or yellow.

Andrew

 

[john]

JP went to the TMO, and then watched it on the big screen. He then made the decision without any input or recommendation from the Video ref.

 

[OB..]

JP went to the TMO, and then watched it on the big screen. He then made the decision without any input or recommendation from the Video ref.

Is that kosher?!

AIUI he only has comms with the TMO, so if he wants something other than what the broadcaster chooses to show, he has to go via him. In which case, why have a TMO?

I actually favour the referee making the decision, but I am not convinced this is a good protocol.

 

[matty1194]

How did he have access to replays?

Referees have increased powers in the use of the TMO this season in accordance to the new LAT's. RFU are only using this however.

Suppose it also helps when the crowd all see the replay exactley as the referee would see it, gives the decision's more credability than pulling out the white card like they did in the SH last season.

 

[dave_clark]

after replays, i agreed with the yellow. there was a twist, but there was no lift.

first view, i said red.

 

[john]

Is that kosher?!

AIUI he only has comms with the TMO, so if he wants something other than what the broadcaster chooses to show, he has to go via him. In which case, why have a TMO?

I actually favour the referee making the decision, but I am not convinced this is a good protocol.

In this case, the TMO had looked at the angles available of the tip tackle, and JP watched them simultaneously and had made his decision upon seeing them.

Not being a referee, I also thought the reaction of the commentators was good to hear: they are normally very good at criticising officials, but quite rightly praised the referee for taking the time to go upstairs and get the decision right himself, using the screen. More of the same please, Stuart and Miles!

 

[Account Deleted]

It was Red for me.

 

[peperami]

How did he have access to replays?

Apparently all but two of the clubs have the big screens and currently they are showing what the tmo is seeing. I believe the rfu want it stopped. At least twice the refs have watched the big screen and made their own mind up aka american football, rather than wait for the tmo

 

[PeterH]

Red

Plus - the guy should have gone for yellow anyway earlier for pro foul offence (slapping ball away on quick tap)
as should Dom Waldouck(sp??) who killed Exeter ball - Saints got away with murder and I'm no fan of either saints or chiefs but I like them both

 

[Robert Burns]

Why would they want it stopped? It's actually in the TMO trial that where available the referee can check the screens.

If it means the right decision is made I see no issue.

At out meeting last week Wayne was also questioned about the TMO making mistakes. He said that with the new abilities provided he would have no issue with asking the TMO to recheck something he thought looked wrong on the screen. The TMO is there to help get the hard decisions right, I agree with Barnsy, if there is something obviously wrong why compound it?

 

[Ian_Cook]

Why would they want it stopped? It's actually in the TMO trial that where available the referee can check the screens.

If it means the right decision is made I see no issue.

At out meeting last week Wayne was also questioned about the TMO making mistakes. He said that with the new abilities provided he would have no issue with asking the TMO to recheck something he thought looked wrong on the screen. The TMO is there to help get the hard decisions right, I agree with Barnsy, if there is something obviously wrong why compound it?

Exactly.

He saw it
He was entitled to use the replay
He saw the replay
He made the decision based on what he saw

Where's the problem?

http://www.irb.com/mm/document/newsmedia/mediazone/02/06/34/01/tmotrialprotocols2.pdf

3. Potential acts of foul play

3.1. The match officials may suggest that the referee refers the matter to the TMO for review if they observe an act of foul play where:
► They may have only partially observed an act or acts of foul play
► They are unsure of the exact circumstances
► The views of the match officials reporting the act(s) of foul play differ
► There is doubt as to the appropriate sanctions to be applied

3.2. If the referee agrees to refer the matter to the TMO he will indicate that he wishes the TMO to review the potential act(s) of foul play and to make a recommendation as to the appropriate sanction(s).

3.3. In reviewing the potential offence the TMO must use the criterion on each occasion that the infringement must be clear and obvious especially where sanctions may apply where a player is removed from the field of play either temporarily or permanently.

3.4. The other match officials may utilise the in stadium screens (where available) to form a judgement in this matter.

"Other match officials" must refer to those other than the TMO, who has his own screen, and probably can't see the stadium screen anyway

 

[Taff]

Saw the recorded incident last night. The tackler didn't force the player into the ground, or "drop the player without regard to his safety" but he tipped and fell with the tackled player - which some would argue is effectively the same as dropping him.

TBH I watched it 5 times and think it could have gone either way.

 

[andyscott]

It is about consistency, the IRB say red.

But the elite panel referees are doing there own thing, probably because of player power, not wanting to give red cards etc.

Tip tackle should be Red every time.

 

[Taff]

It is about consistency, the IRB say red. But the elite panel referees are doing there own thing, probably because of player power, not wanting to give red cards etc.

But the IRB only say its a :norc: if

• The ball carrier is forced into the ground or
• The ball carrier is "dropped without regard to his safety"

If it's neither of the above, they specifically say it could be a :noyc: or just a straight PK.

... Tip tackle should be Red every time.

Bit harsh IMO. I had one on Saturday, where the ball carrier twisted and ended up past the horizontal; it's difficult to explain, but he effectively tipped himself. Strictly speaking it was a "Tip Tackle" (he was tackled and he did tip) but a :norc: for that would have been totally OTT I think. I just gave a PK. Speaking in the clubhouse after, and both coaches and the assessor agreed.

 

[Account Deleted]

Saw the recorded incident last night. The tackler didn't force the player into the ground, or "drop the player without regard to his safety" but he tipped and fell with the tackled player - which some would argue is effectively the same as dropping him.

TBH I watched it 5 times and think it could have gone either way.

He turned him (head first) and did not get him down safely. This rubbish needs to be removed from the game. If it takes a flurry of red cards to achieve this then so be it.

 

[andyscott]

He turned him (head first) and did not get him down safely. This rubbish needs to be removed from the game. If it takes a flurry of red cards to achieve this then so be it.

He did force him down his weight was above. Not much force, but force never the less

 

[Phil E]

Plus - the guy should have gone for yellow anyway earlier for pro foul offence (slapping ball away on quick tap)
as should Dom Waldouck(sp??) who killed Exeter ball

Yes, both of those should have been yellow.

I found myself in the horrible position of having to agree with Stuart Barnes :wow: