Offside under 10 metre law. or not ? No offsides in goal ?

[CrouchTPEngage]

Got allocated an U19's game last week and, as this age-group tends to do, it threw up a strange situation which had me doubting myself.

Blue under pressure near their own goal-line. Red attacking. Bit of a messy ruck but Blue 9 passes it back to his 15 who is standing in-goal, very far back near the dead-ball line. Red players can see what's coming and start charging at the 15 who makes a complete mess of the clearance kick and skies it. It ends up being caught by a Red player about 1 metre from the try-line. Hilarious error ! Of course, he simply dives for the line but a blue defender , who had not retired, grabs at the red player's arms forcing the red attacker to drop the ball.
Now, to me, the blue player was offside. He was standing right next to the red catcher so was clearly within 10 m of him.
So I think, that red player was going to score there, blue player was offside and interfered, hence I award a penalty try.

Cue howls of derision from) the parents/supporters of the blue team - claiming that "There are no offsides in the in-goal!". One dad asked me "Well - how are they supposed to defend that? Are they supposed to let him catch the ball and just walk the ball across the line and score without touching him?"

I am pretty sure I got it right but why are people telling me "There are no offsides in goal"?

 

[crossref]

you were right.

there are no offside lines in goal - ie the offside lines formed at a scrum, ruck, maul cannot happen in goal as there are no scrums rucks and mauls.

but if you are in front of a team mate who last played the ball, you are offside

 

[OB..]

I am pretty sure I got it right but why are people telling me "There are no offsides in goal"?

Because they don't know the laws as well as you do.

Some offside lines disappear in in-goal since scrums, mauls, and rucks cease to exist there. Moreover the offside line at many phases can become the goal-line so that the defenders are not forced to move unrealistically deep back into in-goal. People extrapolate from these, which occur quite often, and fail to know the rarer situations when offside laws do apply in in-goal

 

[SimonSmith]

Man, if there was ever an occasion to just utter RTFLB, that's it

 

[OB..]

Man, if there was ever an occasion to just utter RTFLB, that's it

True, but how many referees read it before they took up the whistle? How many players (let alone spectators) have ready access to a law book? When challenged, I have occasionally suggested looking it up online, only to be met with a blank look. To be fair you need to be familiar with the law book before you can readily find things in it. Offside is complex and covered in many separate laws.

 

[4eyesbetter]

I am pretty sure I got it right but why are people telling me "There are no offsides in goal"?

Possibly some of their kids have also played League, where you cannot be offside in your own in-goal area for any reason.

 

[OB..]

Possibly some of their kids have also played League, where you cannot be offside in your own in-goal area for any reason.

[LAWS]Section 14.1 A player is offside except when he is in his own ingoal if the ball touches, is touched, held or kicked, by one of his own team behind him.[/LAWS]Interesting. I've learnt something new. However I doubt if it is significant in, say, the Forest of Dean.

I note you can be offside in the opponent's ingoal, so no kicks to a "well positioned" team mate!

I presume the player in #1 would be offside in League, since he was in the field of play. Presumably moving out of ingoal can also make you offside even though you weren't originally.

 

[ChrisR]

As others have said, you got it right. As to defending it? Some things are indefensible and this was pretty close. The 15, or another onside teammate, could have run forward to put the player onside but only if that player was retiring.

 

[Dickie E]

Man, if there was ever an occasion to just utter RTFLB, that's it

Here's a good place to start:

[LAWS]11.1 Offside in general play
(a)
A player who is in an offside position is liable to sanction only if the player does one of three things:
•Interferes with play or,
•Moves forward, towards the ball or
•Fails to comply with the 10-Metre Law (Law 11.4).

A player who is in an offside position is not automatically penalised.
A player who receives an unintentional throw forward is not offside.
A player can be offside in the in-goal.
[/LAWS]

 

[leaguerefaus]

[LAWS]Section 14.1 A player is offside except when he is in his own ingoal if the ball touches, is touched, held or kicked, by one of his own team behind him.[/LAWS]Interesting. I've learnt something new. However I doubt if it is significant in, say, the Forest of Dean.

I note you can be offside in the opponent's ingoal, so no kicks to a "well positioned" team mate!

I presume the player in #1 would be offside in League, since he was in the field of play. Presumably moving out of ingoal can also make you offside even though you weren't originally.

Offside is judged at the point the ball is touched by (or touches) the player, so as long as the chaser was in the in-goal at the point of the kick, he remains onside if he moves out of the in-goal.

Just one of those strange things that I hope doesn't happen in a game I'm refereeing...

 

[OB..]

Offside is judged at the point the ball is touched by (or touches) the player, so as long as the chaser was in the in-goal at the point of the kick, he remains onside if he moves out of the in-goal.

Just one of those strange things that I hope doesn't happen in a game I'm refereeing...

Curiouser and curiouser!

 

[Camquin]

But in RL you get a drop out from the goal line if you touch down having taken the ball in - so you are less likely to try to kick the ball from the in-goal.

 

[Taff]

... Cue howls of derision from) the parents/supporters of the blue team - claiming that "There are no offsides in the in-goal!".

There are no offside lines in-goal. As my old lecturer used to say .. "There is a subtle difference".

... One dad asked me "Well - how are they supposed to defend that? Are they supposed to let him catch the ball and just walk the ball across the line and score without touching him?"

Try kicking the friggin thing further down field. That would work.

True, but how many referees read it before they took up the whistle?

The man does have a point. :biggrin:

 

[beckett50]

Perhaps if the kicker had caused his own kick rather than ball watching he would have been in a position to make the tackle!

Bear in mind that any of his team mates in the FoP near the catcher fall within the 10m Law and so need to retreat back to the goal line.

 

[didds]

Perhaps if the kicker had caused his own kick rather than ball watching he would have been in a position to make the tackle!

Bear in mind that any of his team mates in the FoP near the catcher fall within the 10m Law and so need to retreat back to the goal line.

to clarify..

blue kicker is near DBL, fluffs kick to lanmd near 5m line. blue players only need to retreatr to the try line ie less than 10m from the ball's, landing point?

didds

 

[OB..]

to clarify..

blue kicker is near DBL, fluffs kick to lanmd near 5m line. blue players only need to retreatr to the try line ie less than 10m from the ball's, landing point?

didds

[LAWS]11.4 (a) [...] [FONT=fs_blakeregular] The offside player must immediately move behind the imaginary 10-metre line or the kicker if this is closer than 10 metres. [...][/FONT][/LAWS]Moving back to the try line is not sufficient in this case.

 

[Phil E]

[LAWS]11.4 (a) [...] [FONT=fs_blakeregular] The offside player must immediately move behind the imaginary 10-metre line or the kicker if this is closer than 10 metres. [...][/FONT][/LAWS]Moving back to the try line is not sufficient in this case.

So there is an offside 'line' in goal?

There are no offside lines in-goal. As my old lecturer used to say .. "There is a subtle difference".

 

[OB..]

There are no offside lines in-goal. As my old lecturer used to say .. "There is a subtle difference".

"Offside" means there is a menagerie lion across the field.

 

[TheBFG]

"Offside" means there is a menagerie lion across the field.

Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr I wish there was, it would stop the back rows going offside :wink:

 

[beckett50]

So there is an offside 'line' in goal?

Straight lines, yes. Circular? No